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 Post subject: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:25 pm 
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Ok I'm going to get this out of the way first.

In my opinion, FFXIV on the PS4 is superior to the PS3 version, and on a par with the PC version.

The reasons I give for this, is that even the scaled down version of the game engine that is in use on the PS3, pushes the system to the absolute limit of what is achievable. With limited memory available, there are times when the game absolutely crawls.

It's undeniable that the game has frame rate issues, which whilst not a major issue for adventuring or crafting, it can be a big issue in dungeons or FATES. To add to this; owing to the limited memory, there is an input delay, which can be the difference between missing enemy attacks and dying.

If the game performed any worse it would never have been released for the PS3. With that said, it is a technical marvel that SE even managed to get this game to run on the system at all, and is a shining albeit hampered example of a fully featured MMORPG on console. They had a promise to keep dating back to v.1.0 so big props to them there for making it happen.

The PS4 version has more memory and faster processing available to it. As a result it looks better, feels better, and performs better - no slideshows on display here at all. Everything runs at 60fps, rather than sub-20 - which as someone with dodgy eyesight like me, helps to avoid eyestrain and headaches. I found the low frame rate on PS3 for everything around your character conflicted with the character model itself which ran higher - it gave it a kind of surreal look. Now it feels brighter and more engaging.

This goes beyond graphics. Actions are performed noticably faster, and more reliably. It feels snappy and I felt that I was better able to observe and react to foes in combat. By comparison, it makes the PS3 version feel a little sluggish, for the reasons given above.

Anyway like I said, this is my opinion based on what I saw and felt having played all three versions now. Feel free to discuss what you think without any mudslinging, and I'll leave you with a capture from the PS4 beta. Don't forget to watch in HD.


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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:11 pm 
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>PS4 FF14 better than PS3
>On Par with PC


I feel like I am being trolled here. This should be obvious and the game isn't going to be the same as the PC version. The PC version will always be superior. If anybody didn't think the PS4 version wouldn't be better than the PS3 version then there must be something wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Given that the game looks and performs as well as it does on most peoples' PC, and given this time around it has full mouse and keyboard support, I would say it's on a par with the PC version. Now if you are referring to hardware, then that is a different story. There will be PC users with better performance, there will be PC users with worse performance. Thats the way it goes when there's hardware variance. You cant just come out with 'PC version is better' because for many people that isnt the case.

When comparing PS4 with PS3, I can be a little more definitive with my subjections. A PS3 is a PS3, and a PS4 is a PS4. A direct comparison can be made in my case, because I have put the exact same model hard drive in both, so none of this 'oh but you could use an SSD!' crap. I also use my PS3 and PS3 with the same screen and in the same place - and for that matter it's the same screen I use for my PC too. I feel I am in a great position to make a comparison, and I am entitled to share it without being dismissed as a troll.

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:23 pm 
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Okay, so lets start at the start.

I'm an old school gamer. Have been since 1983. Run Rabbit Run for the Speccy being the first memory I have of gaming. Back then, the only thing that could save a game was how it played. Visuals and sounds were important, sure, but if a game didn't keep you pressing "Start Game" then it was a dud.

FFXIV:ARR on PS3 is one of those games. Graphics aren't incredible, some music is dull, and it isn't without it's fair share of dickheads. However, it has enough content to keep me paying £7.49 a month.

In November I paid £435 for a PS4 and I've used it for a total of around 10 hours - just enough to beat Killzone Shadow Fall, get to the basement in Outlast, and beat Resogun. So imagine my joy when I heard FFXIV:ARR was coming to PS4 - and for free, seeing as I had the PS3 version.

The beta is this weekend, and after a spot of internet drama, I've finally given it a go.

And it's just the same game with a fresh lick of paint.

"But dude, you're missing the point..." I hear one person say.

"It's more responsive, it's got less delay, it's got a whole bunch of improvements that make the PS3 version redundant!".

And therein lies my problem.

I had no responsiveness issues on PS3.
I had no lag issue on PS3.
I had no delay issue on PS3.

Christ, I've actually beaten the main story (which I think other than Crabstick I'm the only one here who has) and you don't get to do that - especially as a Healer - if your game suffers from responsiveness issues, lag, and input delay.

But to set the record straight, the PS3 version does have it's faults. Or did. When fighting some bosses, if there were a lot of enemies around, sometimes the bosses wouldn't appear, as their priority wasn't as high as the players.

However, that's been fixed, and now bosses have highest priority. Sure, there's issues when there's 50+ players crammed into 10 square feet, but that's a given. Besides, I don't give two shits about some random Archer who I have no affiliation with.

There is also a spot of lag when you kill one of the tree things, especially if it falls on you, but it's dead, and I'm running to the next enemy, so it doesn't bother me. There was also a spot of lag in FATEs when everyone's casting and fighting, not to mention I couldn't see what the fuck was going on, so I turned off all the enemy and other player's battle effects, which improved performance AND let me me see what the fuck I was doing.

I've beaten Titan four times, and Garuda twice, and with the sole exception of the first Garuda battle, I've aced them all (as in, beaten without dying). Given that both fights have instances where split second timing is needed, if there were responsiveness issues or other lag issues, then I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have done that.

I was part of an 8-man party who took down Ultima first time, again not possible if there were responsiveness issues, especially as a Healer.

Since playing in the PS3 beta since, what, June last year, there has never been a time where I have had a bad experience due to a lack of responsiveness with the controls, or lag (unless I've left uTorrent running, which is my own bad). Every battle has had me act exactly as I want to, when I want to. Every loss I've had has been either because I wasn't concentrating, or because my party members were asshats.

I can honestly, hand on heart, say that I have never experienced any of the problems that I'm told have been "fixed".

Oh sure, everyone's moving at 60fps - including the other players - but given that when I play I'm more bothered about what I'M doing, not aforementioned random Archer. The resolution is higher, meaning more screen space, at the expense of being able to read what's on the screen.

However, I am aware that in the early days of the game's release, I've known people with connectivity issues linked to having the worst ISPs in the country, and many a time there were lags and timeouts and other such nastiness, but I never experienced that.

Could that be part of the "But you're missing the point!" argument I'm seeing? I don't know. Who does? Not me!

All I know is that I've played FFXIV:ARR almost daily since the beta in June of 2013. It is now February 2014. And after spending admittedly only a short time in Eorzea on PS4, I'm seeing NO difference in responsiveness during combat, I'm seeing NO difference in my characters reactions, I'm seeing NO lag issues (surprising for a beta when EVERYONE is in the same starting area), and all I really AM seeing is that other people I don't give a shit about move a little bit faster, things sparkle more, and holy fuck that text is small.

I know I'm going to get told I'm wrong, or that I'm not seeing the bigger picture, or something like that. To be frank, I don't care.

I've played this game for almost a full year, and I have enjoyed the piss out of it every single day. More frames and less jaggies have not improved the experience for me, just made it prettier.

Is that a bad thing? Not at all.

Does it change the game? Not at all.

However, I shall persevere and do everything from scratch, just like I did all those months ago, and should I see anything that makes me go "Actually, this IS better than the PS3 experience" - note I said "experience" and not "version" - then I shall post it here.

So with that in mind, this is likely to be my last post in this thread.

Laters!

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Don't be offended with this Carl, this is just a response - unless I'm not allowed to respond.

Unless it was someone else that said it, I did not say this makes the PS3 version redundant. That's just putting words in my mouth. If it wasnt me that said that particular thing, then I apologise. If it was me, point me to the quote and I will admit it, but I wont, because I never said that. For that matter, my PS3 copy will still get used, because I have two PS3s in different places.

As for frame rates. I've covered the disparity between the uncapped frames of the main character, and others around you. That is disorientating and it hurts my eyes. I've given my reasons, it should be no reason for contention. At all. And frame rates do matter in MMORPGs. Not as much as say, a first person shooter, but any game which involves avoiding an attack real time in order to stay alive benefits from higher frame rates. That much is pretty clear.

I have noticed a significant reduction in input lag. It's only a few tenths of a second, but input delay is something that matters a lot in online games, as I am sure you are aware. I havent had to mash any buttons to fires any spells so far with the PS4, despite being connected to the same network. I suspect it's because the system has more memory, it's as simple as that.

There we have it. A civil response. Of course it's subjective, but I've used a lot of objectives in comparing the two to base my subjective conclusion. A lot of reviewers do this too, but you don't have to feel compelled to take their comments personally - which I suspect you probably did on FB. Hell it's better than basing objectives on subjectives! :)

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Even though I started this thread as a general discussion on the PS4 beta, I feel that the tone this has now taken has turned it more into an extension of the bullshit that went on earlier on facebook. For that reason, feel free to close this, if no-one else has anything constructive to add. That's not what I wanted at all. It's going to go all he-said she-said, and 'that guy's a fucking troll' otherwise.

I feel as though, as a group of people who have known each other for a number of years now, we could afford to give each other a little more respect than this. It seems I was wrong in thinking that.

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Do you think - being serious - that the issues with BT only affected the PS3 version? I know I never had any of the issues either you or... whoever else it was... had, which were horrendous for you.

In all seriousness though, your PS3 experience was bad, mine was joyous, and I think this is what is blinkering us both with how we're perceiving the PS4 beta, considering I never had the problems you did.

I'm not sure I'll be transferring to PS4 unless theres a way to increase the size of all the text onscreen, not just in chat.

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:19 pm 
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My issues with with my ISP (BT) extended to my PC experience too. I really don't see what you point you are trying to make there. Besides that was resolved in late September, so is in no way a factor in my own personal findings.

Ok. The way I went about things were: What issues have I seen with the PS3 version, and do I see them with the PS4 version? For example:

  • I see low frame rates on PS3; but given that the PS4 version is higher resolution and has upped the graphical effects, do I see similar as a result of that? The answer was no. That's a plus point.
  • I noticed significant input lag on PS3, particularly with mining - as well as random spells not firing until the second button press. Have I noted this to be a problem with the PS4? To this point, no I havent.
  • The PS3 doesn't allow me to set up my client in the same manner as I do on PC: Extra hotbars on screen, detached chat windows etc. Does the PS4 version allow me to do this? Yes it does.
  • The PS3 doesnt have 100% full mouse and keyboard support, you will always have the cross bar which is a pain to configure for a keyboard. Does the PS4 have the same limitation? No. Full mouse and keyboard functionality is supported, including PC style hotbars.

If this is enough to cause offense to anyone, then there is seriously a lack of respect, and quite frankly, butthurt that someone dare think differently. Heck, the way my opinion has been disrespected today, this might as well be the IGN boards.

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Hang on... I was being serious, asking serious questions, being a grown up... And yet you act like a child? You know what, I'm done. With this thread and with you. All I've said is "I saw none of the issues you did" and all you've done is continue to force the issue.

Considering the absolutely massive U-turn you made after spending months pissing your pants about there being no money in the game, and how you don't want to spend all day gathering and crafting, and now you're doing just that AND telling the rest of us how to do shit most of us have been doing for fucking months (your "I can't see what good 'Observe' would ever be" two months ago to "'Observe' is so fucking useful" last week), and how you spent months telling me and Dan we were so wrong and didn't know shit about MMOs because "you played WoW for a few years so you know better than everyone else", and now you're the very fucking shining beacon of advocacy for the very thing you refused to accept... Considering that massive U-turn I've come to the conclusion that your opinion is about as trustworthy as Hitler (I knew I'd get his name in here somewhere) and therefore I'm giving up listening to anything you have to say, because anything you do say will be invalid.

Congratulations. You're the Garrington of MMOs.

I'm done here. Not just this thread but this whole fucking place.

I'm out.

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:42 pm 
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This might just be because I've only played on Cerberus (a Euro server for the uninitiated) just so I could play with you dorks, but I've hit all those issues that Sparky outlined above on PS3. If PS4 takes care of that, I can't wait until I have one.

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 Post subject: Re: PS4 Beta Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:58 pm 
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Carl, I don't believe in burning bridges, but in this case, after that last post I'll make an exception.

You aren't going to get that pleasure I'm afraid. I'm already out of the Free Company, and *I* am out of here when I'm done posting this.

I still wonder in pity what the point of your little exercise today really was. I mean it can't really be something as asinine as a simple difference of opinion can it? That would be caarazzzy. So that leaves two options in particular. You either wanted me out, or you wanted an excuse to get out.

But today Man. Dear Lord, today. I post an upbeat post on FB about the beta, and you jump in with two feet, and look where that went. I then post what I intended to be a clean, mature thread to discuss (Ergo, share) opinions on the beta. I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with my opening post, as I did explain my justifications. Joey clearly thought there was (the hell did he come from anyway? /strokes beard). Then you jump in with two feet once again, and start literally throwing words into my mouth, and then bizarrely arguing that because I was wrong before, then I am wrong now. All over an opinion piece. Over an opinion! pmsl

So uhm, sorry I don't tow the totalitarian regime's line here, where it's some kind of unwritten law that we must subscribe to your each and every exact likes and dislikes. My language doesn't belong in a farmyard - I know more sounds than B, A, and H.

So yes, I am out. To everyone I have maintained civil and entertaining discussion with over the last few years, I'll miss you guys. Carl, I never thought it would come to this, but whatever... Adios.

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