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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:20 pm 
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I have 10-15 hours a week gametime, and I'm still playing it. Successfully, too. And even then, since when have MMOs been geared towards the casual player?

Also, Squeenix hasn't done enough in terms of new content? Now I know nigz be trollin'. How old is this game again? And have you forgotten about the updates every three months? I'd guess not considering you mentioned it earlier...

Whole lotta your argument falling on its own ass here son...

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Why would I be trolling? I'd have like, you and probably two others to play up to? hardly an audience is it?

Come on Carl you're twisting my words, stop it. I said they haven't done enough to mitigate the monetary penalties incurred by actually playing the game. Absolutely at no point did I say they haven't released enough content. All I said was being broke at 50 stops us from seeing new content. That content being hard modes, 8 man raids etc. It's still new content, because it's conent which hasnt been done yet. I think you read that statement too literally.

Come on man, seriously. You're just reading what you think I'm saying, not what I'm actually saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:12 pm 
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I have a solution!!!

It's something that sends you a /tell 50 times per sector. You've probably got a blacklist macro set up but they're actually here to help!!!

Haha I jest.

Yeh I've heard about this, was gonna ask of it was effecting you, it obviously is.

It's a teething issue, and they need to fix it fast. Enough pele need to be effected by it for them to sort it, but the whole financial ecosystem? It's not something they're gonna do overnight. It's gonna be a good while before it gets rebalanced.

My advice? Just start a new character class until they fix it. The costs will be less for repairs, and if you need it, I'll loan you 30k.

It doesn't solve the issue but its all I can do to help now.

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:04 am 
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it's an instant fix if they just have monsters drop gil. I can understand why they don't do that though. I always thought it was funny that the beast I just killed had a pouch of coins.

In the meantime, naked raiding

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:01 am 
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Well, after only an hour or so last night, I'd made 18k gil by mining wind and lightning shards (available right outside Ul'dah) and then selling them in bundles of 25 on the market for a few gil less than the cheapest bundle.

I'll throw in the tips section how and why.

I'm not throwing this out here as a fix to all Dobbo's problems, because he has raised some good points which despite my dickishness, I do agree with, but if this works at the moment... why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:21 pm 
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it works until, like he says, the gil leaves the economy from repairs and crafting. there has to be a way to grind gil without selling anything or eventually it all disappears.

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:04 am 
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The way it works in just about every other MMORPG, is you get coin drops from monsters, and at least a decent loot table on top. This adds combat as a viable income stream. This would make sense inn FFXIV too because of the way the job system works.

Here's how it ought to be:
You want to craft? Good, sell your shit and claim your reward.
You want to fight? Heres a modest reward to cover your costs and possibly make a slow steady profit.

Here's how it currently is:
You want to craft? Good, sell your shit until the market runs dry.
You want to fight? Dude, you need to craft. Tough shit!

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:52 am 
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also in games like WoW daily quests were added with decent gold rewards. FF14 already has dailies in the form of leves, they just need to increase the gil reward.

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:04 am 
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I clearly don't typically play MMOs, but in the one I got into and the Phantasy Star ones, I was always able to sell item drops to NPCs for money, and I had to grind the fuck out of drops for it to be worth anything, however during that grind, you would get something reasonably rare to sell to other players.

Is that not functioning at all here?

I understand the equipment repair issue, but I remember farming shittons of random things to sell to NPCs or other players, which earned me my cash. Are there not rare armor drops or anything like that to look for when farming for the piddly items?

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:47 am 
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I've only ever gotten crafting items from mobs. gear from dungeon chests

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:37 am 
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Dungeons and Instances have rare loot, which you can sell via retainers (unlocked during a story mission) to other players using the ingame market place.

I just made 71k selling one item of rare-ish loot.

So yeah. Trawl dungeons, make money, disregard bitches.

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Posting in old thread, but this article on MMORPG.COM explains the issue perfectly. tl;dr? Shame, because it describes a real thing. No room for ignorance or apologist attitudes, and he explains things much better than I could have.

Quote:
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is one of the few MMOs I’ve played in the last few years that have successfully given me “the bug”. You all know what I’m talking about; it’s that almost indescribable desire to obsessively play an MMO. After all, it’s the feeling we’re all chasing when looking for a new MMO to play. But Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn isn’t without flaws and one of its most potentially serious flaws is one that isn’t necessarily obvious to most of us: the game’s economy.

This is something that has been concerning me going all the way back to the game’s earlier beta phases. I’d heard offhand that the Gil earned from questing should be considered precious. Conserve your Gil by not teleporting frequently; don’t spend it on nonsense, that sort of thing. Why? Because the vast majority of the Gil generated in ARR comes from completing quest content. You aren’t going to be making Gil by vendoring items; heck, mobs don’t even drop vendor junk to sell.

If you want to earn Gil in FFXIV, you’re going to have to interact with the economy in a meaningful player-to-player way. In theory, this is awesome. Most modern MMOs eschew the interdependency we found in classic MMOs for a much more solo, selfish approach. Square Enix’s emphasis on interdependency is refreshing, but there are some issues with the implementation.

Before we dig in, we need to cover some terms first: Gil sinks and Gil fountains. Sinks and fountains are game design terms for systems or features that create and destroy things in the game. We’ve all heard of “time sinks” before, I’m sure. They’re part and parcel of the subscription MMO experience and they keep players busy by, well, straight up destroying your time. Gil sinks are features of the game that destroy the game’s currency and Gil fountains are features that inject currency back into the game’s economy. And no, there aren’t any time fountains, though I’m pretty sure we all wish there were. They would make up for some of our bad MMO decisions (among other things), but I digress.

In Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, the predominant Gil fountain comes in the form of vendorable Allagan pieces rewarded by quests. However, there are many, many more Gil sinks in the game, including teleport fees, market board taxes, repair costs, and Chocobo porters. These all remove Gil from the game’s economy.

What’s the problem then?

Well, right now, this isn’t a huge issue. There are a myriad of economic issues worth discussing about FFXIV’s economy, but they are fairly classic ones, such as the tension between crafters and raiders, but the issue we’re talking about today would supersede anything else. You see, right now everyone is in a mad dash to level up. There is a ton of Gil being created by players as they strive to hit level cap and this will likely continue for a little while yet. But as server populations mature, the current ratio of Gil sinks to fountains will result in the deflation of the value of Gil over time. In a real economy, there are ways to deal with this, but when sinks remain static (e.g. repair costs and teleport fees remain the same) this will only exacerbate the issue, destroying Gil much faster than it can be replaced through Gil fountains.

This issue has been a major source of discussion in the FFXIV community over the last week or so and there are unfortunately people who just don’t understand it. I’ve seen comments suggesting that people are not doing things correctly, or not willing to do what it takes to earn Gil in the economy, but these all miss the point. It doesn’t matter if you’ve earned 2.5 million Gil through the market since FFXIV: ARR launched; that wealth wasn’t created, it was transferred.

If you took a snapshot in time of the FFXIV economy on your server, there would be a total amount of Gil spread across its players. Every time you make Gil (aside from quest completion and a few other minor ways), you are simply transferring part of that total wealth from another player to yourself. In fact, Gil isn’t being created by this process, it’s being destroyed. Since most of these transactions are likely taking place on the market board, that board is charging a fee that is destroying Gil. This is in addition to the many other Gil sinks found all throughout the game. Now, these sorts of sinks are common in just about any MMO and it’s not usually an issue. Designers put in money sinks in order to curb inflation. But with almost all of the game’s Gil creation coming from quest rewards, the total wealth on any particular server will only shrink over time in proportion to the state of quest completion in the game.

In order to keep things healthy in the current environment, players would need to constantly create alts and level them up to create new Gil and this runs in direct opposition to one of the game’s main selling points: the ability to do it all on one character.

The obvious solution then is to add more Gil fountains to the game. The resistance in the community from those who understand the issue is in the question of how many more fountains should be added and what exactly that would entail. I don’t have a perfect answer here, but I do agree that if Square Enix does recognize this issue, they should definitely approach this with a degree of restraint. There should be enough Gil coming into the game that players aren’t forced to create new characters, but not so much as to invalidate the need for new Gil or eliminate the potential for that refreshing interdependency we mentioned earlier. And yes, I realize there are serious issues with said interdependency right now aside from this, but that’s a discussion for a whole other article.

There’s also another theory I’ve been mulling over. Maybe this was all part of Square Enix’s plan? Am I giving Yoshida-san and his team too much credit? That’s for you to decide, but it’s something that I began thinking about recently when I went over Yoshida-san’s response to my concern over the abuse of FATEs. In that case, it seems that they knew the current FATE situation would happen and they are OK with it for the time being. The logic there is that as the player population matures, players won’t spam FATEs as much and there won’t be an issue. Yoshida-san went further, explaining that they would be adding a new form of PvE content in 2.1 and that they feel players will vary their activities as this new form of content comes in. Was he referring to dailies? It’s certainly possible. Dailies would also allow for increased Gil creation, possibly killing two birds with one stone.

This all has me really considering the notion that perhaps Square Enix really did overtune the launch economy on purpose. We’ve seen what happens to MMO economies when some design oversight leads to rapid inflation early on in the game’s life. It’s incredibly hard to put that genie back in the bottle. Adding more sinks after the fact can be incredibly disruptive to players, making it a lot less doable than adding new fountains to an overtuned economy. Square Enix may be intentionally relying on quest completion for Gil creation in the beginning when it’s not much of an issue just yet since so many players are leveling up. If 2.1 can be expected in a couple of months and the rumors of dailies are true, then perhaps one possible solution will come just in time and perhaps, if you buy into my line of thinking, on schedule.

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:26 pm 
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All I get from that is "There's a lot to spend Gil on, and not a lot of ways to make it", which is rubbish for so.many reasons, but then ends with "But this might be their plan, as there could be new stuff in 2.1 which will sort it, so lets wait and see", which is basically saying "I probably just invalidated everything I just said".

Watch, as the Gil rewards for PvP are massive amounts, rewarding risk.

Watch, as new daily events offer cash bonuses (although we have them in the form of supply missions).

Watch, as people like me will still offload all their "shit" obtained levelling DoH or DoL classes to vendors - not the market - making a few grand.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. There is. I can see it. But I also know how to work around it. Even just using vendors, I can still amass enough money to remain "comfortable".

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 Post subject: Re: Server Economics & you! Why Square Enix needs to fix it
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:35 pm 
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When you get to 50, all there is left to do, content-wise is the end-game stuff like high level raids. That shit is massively expensive, both to gear up, and when you die (dying a lot is a huge part of playing through raid content). Imagine getting a full repair bill 5 or 6 times a night because everyone is learning the mechanics. That's more expensive than anything you will have every encountered in this game thus far. And because it requires a lot of your time, there simply is no time to focus on anything else like crafting and selling items.

What the guy is basically saying is that SE may well fix things in future. That's great news, but until then, this game simply isnt worth my time playing, because where is the new content for me at this point? I've done everything prior to this, and everything at level 50 is out of my reach. The game has stagnated for me, and there's nothing that makes playing this game worthwhile.

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