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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:17 am 
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I disagree with the death penalty. How can you teach society that killing people is wrong by killing people? It just doesn't make any sense. I'd much rather let them rot in a maximum security prison with no chance of parole.

Also, from a capitalist stand point, it costs more money to execute someone than it does to give them a life sentence.

As a father, I too would go ape shit if someone hurt one of my kids, but there's no justice in it for me if the state non violently puts them down like a 12 year old dog. There's much more justice in the thought of them getting repeatedly raped and beaten in a jail cell somewhere where they have no hope of things ever getting better. Hell, I'd probably even visit them on occasion when I was feeling down just to find out how much they hate it in there.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:52 am 
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fanboy19 wrote:
I disagree with the death penalty. How can you teach society that killing people is wrong by killing people? It just doesn't make any sense. I'd much rather let them rot in a maximum security prison with no chance of parole.


How would you feel knowing that your hard earned tax dollars went to feed, clothe, and take care of such a man for the rest of his life? They're a drain on society, and should be cut out of it.

fanboy19 wrote:
Also, from a capitalist stand point, it costs more money to execute someone than it does to give them a life sentence.


Only when you factor in the appeals. If you just kill 'em, it doesn't cost anything but the bill for cleanup.

fanboy19 wrote:
As a father, I too would go ape shit if someone hurt one of my kids, but there's no justice in it for me if the state non violently puts them down like a 12 year old dog. There's much more justice in the thought of them getting repeatedly raped and beaten in a jail cell somewhere where they have no hope of things ever getting better. Hell, I'd probably even visit them on occasion when I was feeling down just to find out how much they hate it in there.


That's why I don't like lethal injection. Those worthless shitbags don't deserve humane treatment. Depending on the crime, they deserve to die as violently as possible. Victims of murder certainly didn't die humanely; why should the killers?

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:56 pm 
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I still vote for the whole Saw/Jigsaw devices.

If my taxes went to pay for a child molester to be taken to an abandoned house, have his genitalia secured in a vice that cannot be opened, the house set ablaze, and the bastard handed a blunt, rusty hacksaw and told "Make your choice", then I'd never ever complain about paying taxes ever again.

Hows THAT for justice?

Inb4torture=wrong. As stated before, someone does something like touch kids, rape, murder, or anything else like that, they have immediately forfeited their own human rights and don't deserve pity or remorse.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:38 pm 
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Then you're no better than them though, and deserve to be put to the same treatment...

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:04 pm 
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I have to agree with Seb, an eye for an eye makes the world go blind.

But then again I kinda agree with Blokey. Tourture is ace, and then you don't even take their life, so technically you're not doing anything wrong but discaplining them, and then they have to life their life knowing and remembering the mistake they made. I also had another thought though...

It costs my hard earned pounds to keep this f*ckers in prison right? And they get no kind of punishment..really. And after what Seb said about it being something to do with their upbringings? I know there's something in that that's true, sometimes people do it because of their parent's failure to raise a child properly. But, regardless of their upbringing, regardless of the crime, I feel they still understand that what they are doing is morally wrong, and this isn't something you teach children, this is a feeling that you know, you learn, and unless you're mentially derranged (in which you need medical help, not punishment) then you'll always know that you're doing something wrong, so it's half your fault anyway. So I think that punishment, correction and self preservation is key. Here's what I thought of whilst reading the posts...

What if there was a place like Seb suggested, where the prisoners live. It's a fairly nice place, but they have to work, real real hard to keep it that nice. They have absolutely no chance of parole, and they will live there forever more, but at least they're working to keep themselves alive, and learning skills that can help them gather food, cook food, decorate the insides, make furniture etc etc, and then even make a profit out of all that they do which can go to the govornment and even charity. That costs no money and they're out of society, and they may even die knowing that they improved the quality of their life by learning crafts etc.

Maybe this is a fantasy and maybe it would have a million flaws but, I dunno just sounded like a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:48 pm 
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Ax wrote:
What if there was a place like Seb suggested, where the prisoners live. It's a fairly nice place, but they have to work, real real hard to keep it that nice. They have absolutely no chance of parole, and they will live there forever more, but at least they're working to keep themselves alive, and learning skills that can help them gather food, cook food, decorate the insides, make furniture etc etc, and then even make a profit out of all that they do which can go to the govornment and even charity. That costs no money and they're out of society, and they may even die knowing that they improved the quality of their life by learning crafts etc.


It's called "Australia".

Although I like the idea of a desolated island somewhere out in the middle of some ocean somewhere. Make sure its habitable, drop them off, and leave them be. To ensure no-one escapes, have it so that everyone is wearing neckbraces as in the movie "Wedlock", in which all prisoners have neckbraces linked to one other convict, and should they move more than 1/2 mile away from their partner, the braces go "boom". The thing is, no-one knows who their partner is, meaning escape is extremely risky.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Se[BBB]e wrote:
Then you're no better than them though, and deserve to be put to the same treatment...


Hey, it's THEIR choice. We don't kill them, we give them options. We're actually doing them a favor by giving them a way to continue their miserable existence.

How the hell is that for rationalization? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:00 pm 
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It's actually more than just the appeals that cost money. The drugs used to put someone down are incredibly expensive, as is the doctor who administers them. The electricity bill for the chair is so high that for a time Florida had the electric couch so they could cook multiple inmates at a time. Also, I don't think anyone should be able to be for capital punishment unless they are willing to be the executioner if called upon to do so.

There's also the moral issue of do you really know that they are guilty? It's the one reason I'll never be a juror. Even if the evidence is stacked to the ceiling saying someone is guilty, I could never give a guilty verdict because I didn't see it happen and unless I see it I can't be 100% sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:18 pm 
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The death sentence should only be carried out if the evidence provided to the courts was something like "Okay ladies and gentlemen, here is CCTV footage of the accused carrying out the murder. And here it is from 7 different angles. And here it is, taken on a videocamera by one of the 27 witnesses who were on-scene at the time of the murder. And here's the dashcam video of the first officer on site, just in time to see the accused plunge the knife into the victim, followed by the accused giving himself up for the police immediately. And here's his signed confession, which mirrors exactly the incident you have just seen."

You know, the shit that simply cannot be anything less than 100%.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:35 am 
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DNA evidence is always a nice one...

If electricity costs so much then we can always resort to the good, old-fashioned firing squad... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:28 pm 
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DNA evidence can be wrong. Utah has a firing squad. How would you like to be one of the guys that has to pull the trigger?

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:05 pm 
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I'm pretty sure they're not conscripted. So somewhere along the line somebody goes into the job willingly.

How can DNA evidence be wrong? I was under the impression that if a girl is raped and the DNA from the semen matches a guy then he MUST have been the one who that semen belongs to. Sure, you still have the question of if he raped her or if they had consensual sex but that's not the DNA aspect of the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:15 pm 
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that's what I meant by wrong. It can be taken out of context. It can be planted (example, the girl finds a used condom of his and puts it in herself). And it can be wrong in the case of conjoined twins.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:18 pm 
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Aye, which is why DNA evidence is fantastic when used in conjunction with other evidence. You could never prosecute somebody based solely on DNA evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital Punishment Vs the People
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:20 pm 
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true, but most jurors are morons and think DNA is the end all of evidence. Well it's his DNA, he must be guilty. That sort of thing.

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