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 Post subject: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:33 am 
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If you don't know, a woman named Jennifer Hepler is under fire for a certain comment she made... five years ago. The comment? "I came into the job out of a love of writing, not a love of playing games. While I enjoy the interactive aspects of gaming, if a game doesn't have a good story, it's very hard for me to get interested in playing it." This is something I've done at least once. Where I'm more intrested in the story than gameplay. She then said games should let you skip the action which infuriated the internet even more, you know, because its never been done before.

The internets response? Ladies and gentlemen, the low point of the internet. Absolutely horrifying, isn't it? We have Leland Yee saying that not paying that the court fees from last years big case is justified and Fox news saying The Secret World of Arietty is the latest from the liberal medias agenda and yet we're directing our nerd rage towards this?

Her response towards all the recent hate did not help either. "I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either."

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

REALLY?

You're gonna punch a hornets nest after its fell to the ground? Cause thats what you just did. Look, this isn't Paul Christofo, this isn't Cooper Lawrence, this is a writer for Bioware, the worst shes done is admit she likes Twilight and Stephanie Meyer dosen't even get as much hate in her carrer as this girl has gotton in the past week. Isn't Bioware supposed to be one of the the good guys? Shame on you internet, this was your lowest I've ever seen. This is the antithesis of Project Chanology.

I really hope no one on here has joined in or thought of joining in on the public humiliation of this woman. Espesially after Aaryn Flynn told a detractor that he was a fucking moron. And now this idiot is going around trying to gain sympathy for being treated badly. Why aren't we making people like him pay?

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Last edited by Raiku on Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:50 am 
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Raiku wrote:
a writer for Bioware.

Raiku wrote:
Aren't they supposed to be the good guys?


Shit Raiku, you're way outta the loop.

Hepler is pretty terrible. Does she deserve all the hate she gets? Much like that Bieber kid, no.
But that doesn't make her any less terrible. She discredited Tolkien in favor of Meyer. She's a yaoi fangirl. She thinks that video games should be books instead of video games.
And she tops it all off by calling her haters jealous of her cooch? Good God. I don't even know how to deal.

But that doesn't mean she deserves the death threats and shit. It just means she's an obnoxious person and I would not mind if gravity stopped working for her and she sorta fell off the face of the earth, except for the part where I'd be shitting myself because gravity stopped working.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:57 am 
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Terradude wrote:
Raiku wrote:
a writer for Bioware.

Raiku wrote:
Aren't they supposed to be the good guys?


Shit Raiku, you're way outta the loop.

Hepler is pretty terrible. Does she deserve all the hate she gets? Much like that Bieber kid, no.
But that doesn't make her any less terrible. She discredited Tolkien in favor of Meyer. She's a yaoi fangirl. She thinks that video games should be books instead of video games.
And she tops it all off by calling her haters jealous of her cooch? Good God. I don't even know how to deal.

But that doesn't mean she deserves the death threats and shit. It just means she's an obnoxious person and I would not mind if gravity stopped working for her and she sorta fell off the face of the earth, except for the part where I'd be shitting myself because gravity stopped working.


I'm not a big fan of them either. But at least they don't hold games ransom or clog their games with DRM.

But saying Meyer is better than Toliken is just... stupid.

The worst she deserves is a few "shut your mouth and get back in the kitchen" jokes aimed at her, not saying shes a cancer on gaming.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:43 am 
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Is she in the wrong business? Fucking definitely.

Does she deserve all the shit she got? God no.

That said...

Quote:
...and when two main characters pause in the middle of the impending apocalypse to make out, I almost stopped reading.


I really cannot abide this woman or her shitty writing or her totally misfuckingguided views on videogames, but at most, I'd just wish her to GTFO of the industry and back to writing fanfiction, meaning she's off my radar.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Alright, here's my thoughts: first of all, if playing games is really that much of a chore for you, I don't think writing a story for a game is what you should be doing, because that dislike is going to be reflected in what you write, contrary to what that jackass Sterling believes. Writing a book and writing narrative and dialogue for a game are two different things; while there can be some overlap, to be sure, if you write video game plot like you do a book, the game turns to shit because you're trying to shoehorn in too many elements. If you don't believe that, take video games and movies, then look at how MGS4 turned out. I applaud Bioware's efforts to create truly interesting dialogue and narrative, and I believe that bringing in writers with established pedigrees in the literary world is working for them, but if Bioware starts modeling their games after Hepler's style of writing, they will suffer for it immensely.

Next, Hepler doesn't deserve all the personal attacks about her appearance or way of life, but she absolutely deserves criticism for what she's said. I mean, does she have any idea how many best selling books right now are written by a "boring old white man"? J.R.R. Tolkien? Old white guy who's name is synonymous with "fantasy". Tom Clancy? Old white guy, who also happens to have his name on a popular game franchise. George R.R. Martin? Old white guy with a critically acclaimed TV series. Those are just three that are absolutely huge in the public eye; one of them is dead, and he's STILL more relevant than Stephanie fucking Meyer. And saying that all the criticism is just because she's a woman? That's just bullshit, and it further reinforces why she has no business being in the game industry. If you honestly believe the worst stereotypes hold true for the vast majority of your customers, what the hell are you doing helping to make product for them in the first place?

As a side rant, this pushing for gay Shepard to come out of the closet is a load of shit, as well. I have no problem with a homosexual protagonist; in fact, I thought that the lack of a choice in games like Mass Effect and Fable that are all about personal choice was short-sighted and wrong. If it's going to be in the game, though, why does it have to be touted as a major feature of the game? Why is announcing your homosexuality to your crew a pivotal moment in a game that's about saving the galaxy? It just doesn't make sense. The way Hepler is pushing this, she's not pushing for an inclusion into the game, she's just pushing an agenda. Just choose whether you want gay or straight Shepard, get it on with Garris or Miranda or whoever, and move on.

It's pretty clear to me that Hepler just wants to make everything a third-rate romance story, couldn't cut it as an actual author, and is trying to push her agenda on everything she can get her hands on.*


*It was REEEALLY hard for me not to say her hands were grubby, but I refused, because I'm better than that.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Wow.

Okay, some chick that works for Bioware. She partakes in an interview. She likes books more than games. She shouldn't work in games? Fuck off.

She never once said she didn't like games. She in fact said it was the hardest part of her job. Because

#1 She wasn't very good at certain genres and they were tough to play (maybe wasn't brought up playing games).

#2 She was pregnant and had a fucking child on the way (something half the internet losers will probably not understand).


And she's now been called FUCKING CANCER ON HER TWITTER?

To even say she shouldn't be in gaming is an absolute fucking disgrace, and if you think that, or give a flying fuck what kind of books she prefers (oh fucking diddums if they're not the same you'd prefer or are as prolific) then why don't you try writing a fucking game? Why don't you do it for a living? There's probably a fuck load more in gaming story writing than you will ever, ever realise, and obviously me too.

The internet doesn't even have a clue about what her job really entails, yet will try claim she shouldn't be there. Fuck that. I am not a part of that fucking collective.

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Oh and just one more thing. The internet's quick to judge her work now, when it's bored, but it's a different story when they're lapping up Bioware games.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Hey Ax.

Fatboy Slim is remixing a Blind Guardian album.

They're making The Darkness into a kids anime cartoon.

Lucas is re-writing Star Wars: The Old Republic, so that all Sith players' storylines are them seeking redemption for their crimes and turning to the light side and becoming Jedis.

Aerosmith are making a Christian Country And Western album.

Some idiot is taking Dracula and writing a series of books where he's not the Dracula we all know, but someone who sparkles in sunlight and listens to Linkin Park.

Basically, people poking their noses into areas they have no interest in and twisting it to fit their own desires at the expense of those people who have paid for these products in the past.

Hell, I'm no musician, but even I know that Fatboy Slim remixing Blind Guardian is wrong.

I'm no writer, but even I know taking an established character and turning him into a faggot is wrong.

And I'm no games designer, but I know wanting to take a series of action games and turn it into your own homosexual fanfiction is wrong too.

I'm an insurance claims handler, which is why I don't work in a garage.

Sometimes, when you meddle in areas that you're not really qualified to meddle, you upset a few people.

Ladles and jellyspoons, I present to you, Hepler.

Disagree all you like, Ax. I'm right. And while I'll happily admit that I'm no writer, if I was into writing homosexual fanfiction, I wouldn't seek a job writing science fiction.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Ax wrote:
Wow.

Okay, some chick that works for Bioware. She partakes in an interview. She likes books more than games. She shouldn't work in games? Fuck off.

She never once said she didn't like games. She in fact said it was the hardest part of her job. Because

#1 She wasn't very good at certain genres and they were tough to play (maybe wasn't brought up playing games).

#2 She was pregnant and had a fucking child on the way (something half the internet losers will probably not understand).


And she's now been called FUCKING CANCER ON HER TWITTER?

To even say she shouldn't be in gaming is an absolute fucking disgrace, and if you think that, or give a flying fuck what kind of books she prefers (oh fucking diddums if they're not the same you'd prefer or are as prolific) then why don't you try writing a fucking game? Why don't you do it for a living? There's probably a fuck load more in gaming story writing than you will ever, ever realise, and obviously me too.

The internet doesn't even have a clue about what her job really entails, yet will try claim she shouldn't be there. Fuck that. I am not a part of that fucking collective.

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Oh and just one more thing. The internet's quick to judge her work now, when it's bored, but it's a different story when they're lapping up Bioware games.


Alright, here's the actual quote:

Quote:
Q: What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?

A: Playing the games. This is probably a terrible thing to admit, but it has definitely been the single most difficult thing for me. I came into the job out of a love of writing, not a love of playing games… I’m really terrible at so many things which most games use incessantly — I have awful hand-eye coordination, I don’t like tactics, I don’t like fighting, I don’t like keeping track of inventory, and I can’t read a game map to save my life.


She straight up says that playing games is her least favorite part of being where she is now, not just that she doesn't like a certain genre. If that doesn't mean you shouldn't be in the gaming industry, I don't know what does. I'm not saying you have to eat, breathe, and shit gaming 24/7 to be in the industry, but you should probably like it to some degree.

I'll grant you, I'm not an established writer, but I've had a guy in an honest to God publishing house read my stuff and pass it on to his boss, who was definitely interested in reading more, so excuse me if I believe I can speak on the subject of writing, books or otherwise, like I know what the hell I'm talking about. Writing for games and writing for books are two separate disciplines; ask anyone that's done both, and that's what they'll tell you. It's the same for any two entertainment mediums. A guy who writes songs for a living can't take what he does and copypasta that shit into a movie script, or into a draft for a book. Neither can an accomplished author take what he does and copypasta that into a song, or magically turn it into a Broadway musical. If you're going to do both, you have to work to make sure that your idea not only translates from one medium to another, but also makes sense. Hepler is clearly a *shitty* book author, and the fact that she's trying to make Mass Effect into something that it's not makes it pretty clear that she doesn't have the necessary mindset to adapt her ideas for a game.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:45 pm 
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Topical.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:15 am 
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You know what, I had about 400 words on my feelings about this, including what has been said in this thread, but I've decided not to bother with it, as it'd probably fall on deaf ears, which does bring me actual sadness.

So I'll be taking a break, and will be back at some point. Do try to back off from being 1 step away from the people you're demonising in that time.



All of you, learn to respect someone's choice. I'd expect that Carl doesn't exactly like insurance, yet has a job in it. I'm not a massive fan of the corporate side of the NHS, but I have a job working incredibly closely with them. Liking your chosen sector is rarely a requisite for having a job in the sector, and being a writer does not mean that you have to even play a single game. You're collaborating on a narrative, not creating the whole game.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:16 am 
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Nubnos wrote:
You know what, I had about 400 words on my feelings about this, including what has been said in this thread, but I've decided not to bother with it, as it'd probably fall on deaf ears, which does bring me actual sadness.

So I'll be taking a break, and will be back at some point. Do try to back off from being 1 step away from the people you're demonising in that time.



All of you, learn to respect someone's choice. I'd expect that Carl doesn't exactly like insurance, yet has a job in it. I'm not a massive fan of the corporate side of the NHS, but I have a job working incredibly closely with them. Liking your chosen sector is rarely a requisite for having a job in the sector, and being a writer does not mean that you have to even play a single game. You're collaborating on a narrative, not creating the whole game.


Yeah, except that she's not just setting up narrative, but is actually trying to push design choices, i.e. making a whole big deal out of Shepard coming out of the closet, or making sure that, even if you roll straight Shepard, you're gonna walk in on two gay crewmates getting it on. That's just not what Mass Effect is all about; sure, it's about personal relationships, but it goes beyond well beyond who's boinking who, and Hepler doesn't seem to understand that. There's a difference between demonizing someone and leveling well-deserved criticism, and I think those of us that have disagreed with Hepler's actions have done a pretty decent job of making a distinction between the two.

Again, I'm not saying you have to be in the company vanguard and waving the flag in order to have a job in the industry, but again, liking what you're doing ought to be a reason you're there in the first place. Also, I'm pretty sure that working in insurance and working in an company devoted to entertainment aren't exactly analogous experiences beyond the fact that you make money and other basic similarities. Creativity and passion go hand in hand, and if you don't like what you're doing, your creative impulses aren't really gonna be chomping at the bit, and the product will suffer as a result.

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:12 am 
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BTW: The head of Bioware donated money to an anti-bullying campain in Canada.

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@ Blokes. I see what you're saying. Some shit shouldn't mix. I agree with that, but if we didn't get people to attempts shit that was out of their comfort zone, we'd be missing out on a hell of a lot of aweome. What is Fatboy Slim did remix a Blind Guradian album? I'd listen to it (after I initially beheaded him) and it might be good. Probably won't but it *might* be. Sometimes we have to branch out, it's a fact of life and many many people do it in their chosen career. It's how you find yourself.

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Michael Kiske.

Lead singer of Helloween for their two greatest albums.

These two albums were absolute pioneers of Powermetal, and helped shape it to how it is today. crazeh fooz's got a fucking amazing voice. He left Helloween to start his own pop career. Why? He fucking hates rock/metal/power metal. But he was a fucking amazing singer and hits notes than most can't. Should those albums not have existed? You tell any Powermetal fan that those all-important albums shouldn't have have Michael on them and they'd laugh. He was kinda forced into it, tried to change Helloween into a pop band. Shit doesn't matter, what came out of that was amazing because sometimes you gotta try other stuff.

(In case anyone's interested, Michael's pop career was shit and to get some moniez, he's started a metal ban again but they're a bit poo)

@Smokes - You might have had some fiction "liked" but when it comes down to it, you're night a writer for a game dev, you don't know what's really involved or the formats needed by other departments of the devs, or timeframes or the important aspects to create a successful story for a game, because you havn't worked in that industry. True knowledge is knowing that we don't know shit. You don't know shit. Nor do I, but I bet working for a company that big is pretty fucking intense, and I don't think she sits at a desk all day and writes what the fuck she wants and passes it on all willy nilly. She'll be given objectives and boundaries, like anyone in work (probably to stop her writing turning into fucking Twilight) and understands them, unlike us.

Also, she did say she didn't like a certain genre

Quote:
Q: What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?

A: Playing the games. This is probably a terrible thing to admit, but it has definitely been the single most difficult thing for me. I came into the job out of a love of writing, not a love of playing games… I’m really terrible at so many things which most games use incessantly — I have awful hand-eye coordination, I don’t like tactics, I don’t like fighting, I don’t like keeping track of inventory, and I can’t read a game map to save my life.


So some things she can't do, others she doesn't prefer. Doesn't say anything about dancing games. Or Point and Clicks, or racing games...I could go on. To say she doens't like games is an assumption over a little information. She also said, may I remind you, she was expecting a child and didn't have much time to play games. She still obviously played them (otherwise they wouldn't be her least fave part) because she may well have been good at her job.


And again, if all of this bs what you're saying about her is ruining their games anyway, why the fuck are their stories hailed as some of the best story telling in games at right now? Think on, sunshine(s).

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 Post subject: Re: My 2 scents: Hepler Me
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Ax wrote:
And again, if all of this bs what you're saying about her is ruining their games anyway, why the fuck are their stories hailed as some of the best story telling in games at right now? Think on, sunshine(s).


They aren't.

Dragon Age II is almost universally considered worse than the original, including story-wise, and that was the one she primarily worked on.
And despite everyone on this site's colossal boner for it, SWTOR's writing is under some pretty heavy fire too.

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