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 Post subject: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Okay, this is inspired by the Cracked article I posted on Facebook yesterday, but I'm not putting this there, 'cause fuck those people. Also, for those that care, there will be spoilers mentioned ahead. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I don't understand all the hate garnered by the Expanded Universe material, be they books, games, or comics. I can kinda see where it's coming from with some of the early stuff that followed the original trilogy, because there was no direction from above that kept individual authors from contradicting each other with what they wrote, but once Lucas started shepherding all the authors into one stream of continuity, it started becoming coherent and things started making sense.

For instance, I've seen bitching that the EU material totally makes the movies meaningless in that it makes Vader's sacrifice and the Emperor himself irrelevant. I don't understand how this is true. Even if Palpatine wasn't the only Sith Lord left in existence, he still sat at the head of an oppressive regime that caused the slaughter of billions, especially among the non-human populations, so when Vader tossed Palpatine into the core of the second Death Star, he still did something great in removing the head from the snake that was the Empire. Keep in mind, though, that Palpatine ruled over a galactic empire; obviously, even a Sith Lord couldn't run all that by himself, so he had a massive infrastructure in place to help him rule it. It would be silly to assume that just because Palpatine was gone, all of that would just disappear. Not only would that infrastructure still be in place for the Rebels to deal with, but also a lot of the leaders left in Palpatine's absence wouldn't want to lose their positions of power, for a variety of reasons, such as responsibility for the public good, bigotry against non-humans, or their own lust for power.

Another thing held against the EU material is that the existence of other Jedi in the galaxy apparently negates the role that Luke plays in the movies as the last of the Jedi. This is ridiculous. The Force is the source of all life, it's the reason the galaxy exists. Is it unreasonable to think that more people would be born that could use the Force and eventually become Jedi? It's also possible that Jedi from the Old Republic would be left from the purge that Palpatine and Vader carried out. I mean, think about it. They tried to wipe the Jedi from the galaxy, and I don't know if you guys realize it, but a galaxy is a pretty big place, even if you can jump to lightspeed. If Obi-wan and Yoda could hide themselves, I'm pretty sure there were other Jedi that could have done that, too. Finally, even if Luke holds the mantle as the last of the old Jedi, he wasn't killed at the end of RotJ, so he probably went on to do something. Again, is it really that ridiculous to think that Luke wouldn't try to bring the Jedi back? If he felt a responsibility to make sure the Jedi lived on, searching for lost Jedi lore and setting up a Jedi Academy would be exactly the thing he would do.

Something else I've seen complained about is the existence of weapons that make the Death Star look like a chew toy, that they render the Rebellion's sacrifices in destroying both Death Stars meaningless. Again, this is assuming that what happened in the movies was the only thing going on in an entire galaxy ever. I'd be willing to assume that a whole galaxy would have more than a few mad scientist types in it that could create weapons of mass destruction. Each story involving a particular superweapon is pretty plausible, all things considered. The Darksaber was built from the designs of the Death Star, just without the huge support base surrounding the actual weapon itself. The Sun Crusher was a ship designed by the same people that came up with the Death Star, as were several other such weapons.

These are just a few of the things I've seen said about the EU material and why it sucks. I can name one thing that proves why the EU material is amazing: Thrawn. For those that don't know, Thrawn is a Chiss, a race of humanoids with blue skin and red eyes that created an empire in the Unknown Region, a huge chunk of space that was never mapped by the Old Republic or the Empire. Thrawn was stranded on a hunk of rock and found by an Imperial expedition, and he joined the Imperial Navy. His obvious intelligence and grasp of logic and strategic thinking propelled him to the rank of Grand Admiral, but his non-human heritage caused him to be exiled to an Imperial post at the edge of the Unknown Region. After the death of the Emperor, he bided his time and gathered his strength, then launched a campaign that brought the New Republic to its knees. The only reason he never succeeded in reinstating the Empire was betrayal by one of his own men. He was almost without a doubt the most badass villain anyone affiliated with Star Wars has ever imagined.

I could go on about how many awesome things have been introduced to Star Wars through the EU material, like the Noghri, or Han and Lando's origin stories, or all the stories about Boba Fett, but I don't have days on end to sit here and type, so I'm just going to leave it there and let you guys decide. Expanded Universe: horrible or awesome?

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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:52 pm 
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I personally found the novels boring, but I've got no issue with the expanded universe itself. Worldbuilding(or uh, galaxybuilding in this case) is generally one of my favorite parts of fiction, so in concept at least, I'm a fan.

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Last edited by Terradude on Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:59 pm 
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feel the same about people who hate the changes that peter jackson did in the lord of the rings, ie skipped the barrow downs had arwin meet aragorn and other smaller examples, they work better in a film content because damn too many charaters ruins a film if you cannot tell who is who.

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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:51 pm 
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I have no issue with expanding stuff providing its done right, but taking an already established thing and butchering it... thats just not cricket.

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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:45 am 
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I enjoy EU...if it's good. I disliked Episode I. II was a little boring but the politics were okay, and III was the best of the prequels, and I enjoyed it.

I've read no books, just gone through the games around the Old Republic.

All I read that Smokey put was news to me, but reading it I have to completely agree with Smokey on all points, it just makes sense.

I think it's a good idea to expand on the universe, do it. Just...don't fuck around with the original movies (but that's not what this thread's about).

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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:50 am 
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bill goat wrote:
feel the same about people who hate the changes that peter jackson did in the lord of the rings, ie skipped the barrow downs had arwin meet aragorn and other smaller examples, they work better in a film content because damn too many charaters ruins a film if you cannot tell who is who.


I do have to say that I raged like hell when I found out they cut out Tom Bombadill from the movie, but for the most part, I agree. I'll always prefer the books to the movies, but the movies weren't bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, Silmarillion or GTFO.

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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:56 pm 
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There's a similar article on Cracked that discusses sequels... http://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-re ... -prequels/

I agree at the end of ROTJ, the Empire wouldn't just stop and it makes for great stories! There's an established universe and to see it not followed up would be a shame. I've only read the Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy and some of the prequel trilogy era novels.

If there are no more film to follow, then this is all we have!


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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:43 pm 
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designationlocutus wrote:
There's a similar article on Cracked that discusses sequels... http://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-re ... -prequels/

I agree at the end of ROTJ, the Empire wouldn't just stop and it makes for great stories! There's an established universe and to see it not followed up would be a shame. I've only read the Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy and some of the prequel trilogy era novels.

If there are no more film to follow, then this is all we have!


Yeah, I read that one, too, but I couldn't remember where I'd read it while I was making this thread.

If you're interested in reading more, I'd check out the Han Solo trilogy by A.C. Crispin and the X-Wing series by Michael A. Stackpole and Aaron Allston. Those are some of the best Star Wars books out there.

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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Smokey wrote:
designationlocutus wrote:
There's a similar article on Cracked that discusses sequels... http://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-re ... -prequels/

I agree at the end of ROTJ, the Empire wouldn't just stop and it makes for great stories! There's an established universe and to see it not followed up would be a shame. I've only read the Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy and some of the prequel trilogy era novels.

If there are no more film to follow, then this is all we have!


Yeah, I read that one, too, but I couldn't remember where I'd read it while I was making this thread.

If you're interested in reading more, I'd check out the Han Solo trilogy by A.C. Crispin and the X-Wing series by Michael A. Stackpole and Aaron Allston. Those are some of the best Star Wars books out there.


Thanks for the suggestions - added to the reading list! Will report here when I've had a read. Might not be for a while because (dare I say it?) I'm working through the 'Trek' series at the moment (from the 2009 novel releases). 'Wars' or 'Who' will make a good break lol!


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 Post subject: Re: This is gonna get REALLY nerdy
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:45 pm 
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TWO POSTS FROM LOCO IN ONE THREAD?!?

HOLY SHIT!

Carry on.

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