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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
I was gonna write some massive wall of text that would undoubtedly denounce MGS2, 3 and 4 as the atrocities they truly are, but then I saw your comment referred to me as a Halo/COD player, and I realised you were just trollin', as you're more of a Halo/COD player than I am.

Well played, son. :yes:



Yeah I gave up on Borderlands for some mythical excuse.

Definitely ADHD gamer right hurr.

I don't understand how someone can like MGS1 and then hate the next two games.

Its either nostalgia and you actually don't like MGS1/wont if you were to play it again, or...y'know what, I don't care what your reasons are because you are WRONG.


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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Not mythical. Ask Tibe.

Oh wait. That'd mean taking someone else's information on board and actually having to accept that not everyone has exactly the same experience as you.

Sorry. Forgot where I was for a moment.

But, on the off-chance I'm actually allowed my own opinions on something...

MGS1 - had it all, mystery, suspense, action, intrigue, wasn't at all dull in any way, shape or form, and NOT ONE SINGLE PART OF THAT GAME was in any way "a chore".

MGS2 - fantastic, until you stopped playing as Snake and started as Raiden, and then it went downhill FAST. Simulator to try and simulate the Shadow Moses incident? I don't remember a fat bloke on rollerblades. I don't remember some faggot who wouldn't die no matter how many times I shot him. I don't remember running around nak-oh wait, yeah I do. So at least that little bit made sense. The rest, totally WTF and stupid and pointless and by holy fuck did I hate Raiden.

MGS3 - loved how it introduced Big Boss and showed how he became the guy he was, but fuck me if its nothing but sneak, sneak, sneak, boss fight, sneak, sneak, sneak, boss fight, sneak, sneak, sneak, boss fight, sad ending.

MGS4 - Act 1, dull. Act 2, dull. Act 3, dull. Act 4, HOLY FUCK THIS IS AWESOME. Act 5, dull.

inb4 fingers in ears, lalalalala, wrong, etc.

Also, ADHD? You sure? Go finish FFXIII, aka, Grindfest Snoozathon XIII and then come back, yeah?

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:29 pm 
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No love for Peace Walker? :( Portable Ops was OK but more claw hand than playing Monster Hunter.

I like MGS2. Blokey flew completely over the point of MGS2...the point was to show Raiden (and the player) that Raiden is not Snake despite all his VR training and shit by giving him batshit enemies and his constant failing. He only really succeds when he comes into his own and gets the HF blade - a weapon Snake didn't have in MGS1. Once I accepted that I thought it was really slick to deliver that message through a video game.

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:50 pm 
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thegamecubist wrote:
No love for Peace Walker? :( Portable Ops was OK but more claw hand than playing Monster Hunter.

I like MGS2. Blokey flew completely over the point of MGS2...the point was to show Raiden (and the player) that Raiden is not Snake despite all his VR training and shit by giving him batshit enemies and his constant failing. He only really succeds when he comes into his own and gets the HF blade - a weapon Snake didn't have in MGS1. Once I accepted that I thought it was really slick to deliver that message through a video game.

But... if you want to train someone, you use a consistent simulator. You throw in a few spanners here and there to keep the testee on their toes. MGS2 had none of that. Everything was scripted and linear, and Raiden was a bland and boring tit.

Even the contacts he had were boring and none of them were likeable.

And Raiden came into his own at the 99% complete mark? Thats like giving FFXIII credit for finally becoming an open-world experience at the 25 hour mark of a 30 hour game...

That said, Raiden in MGS4 was fucking badass, and his ending sequence genuinely made me cry.

But MGS2 was a poor sequel to an amazing game, and MGS3 was ruined by its focus on camoflage and boss battles (and ladders LOL) than making the game enjoyable to play.

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:02 pm 
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And what game built the script? MGS1. Like all sequels we expect something similar, which MGS2 did but fuddled with the details to make it disorienting. MGS2 recognized that and used it to it's advantage.

The main problem with MGS2 is that it angers the player so much in trying to share its lessons. There are proper ways of making statements; MGS2 didn't quite do it right because it expects a lot of the player, to look beyond the "this is fucked rrrrrraaaaaaeeeegggggg" and question why. I didn't fully get it until I read this (rather large) essay on the game: http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:19 pm 
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When I say "scripted", I mean that in MGS1, nothing that happened was "planned", whereas in MGS2, everything was "planned" right from the offset.

Also, just read that link you posted, and I picked this out:

Quote:
MGS2's defenders have attacked the game's critics by claiming that they "just don't understand the plot." Those critics then respond that MGS2's script isn't very good.

No, its script isn't as good as MGS1's. It's not supposed to be.

The key to MGS2 isn't its script or its narrative, but the form that both ultimately serve.

Doesn't make mention of the characters all being unlikeable, which was one of the reasons I so dislike FFVIII (the whole amnesia thing is the biggest complaint). If right from the outset, the characters are unappealling and make you feel like you're carrying out a chore, then the game suffers.

As a secondary character, Raiden in MGS4 was badass, admittedly only because of the shit he went through before. But goddamn if the constant banal chatter between Raiden and that bint he had a kid with didn't just grate the living shit out of me.

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Fair enough. MGS2 definitely did go to an uneeded extreme to try to tell it's story. Raiden could have easily been less of a minnie-moo-foo-foo but it's too far gone now lawl

I just feel as if I can forgive MGS2 for trying something so batshit in its position at the time; it would be akin to making MW3 a game about knitting quilts. It's so nuts it's awesome. I tend to be an "appreciate the effort" sort of guy.

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:32 pm 
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thegamecubist wrote:
Fair enough. MGS2 definitely did go to an uneeded extreme to try to tell it's story. Raiden could have easily been less of a minnie-moo-foo-foo but it's too far gone now lawl

I just feel as if I can forgive MGS2 for trying something so batshit in its position at the time; it would be akin to making MW3 a game about knitting quilts. It's so nuts it's awesome. I tend to be an "appreciate the effort" sort of guy.

One thing I will give MGS2 after reading that, is that it never "clicked" with me how the boss battles were so alike, as you can see in my previous comments.

Fatman = Raven.
Vamp = Ocelot.
Fox = Fortune.

Mind = blown after reading that, not even ashamed that I just got The Mysterious Cities Of Told on that aspect, but yeah, unlikeable characters can ruin otherwise perfectly acceptable games - that fucking annoying transvestite faggot piece of shit mage from Lost Odyssee, anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:06 pm 
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I like how you dislike MGS2 for having similarities to MGS1.

If you paid attention to the game then you wouldn't have bothered saying that.

Why? because its designed that way. I HATED...and I mean HATED MGS2 all the way up to the end. Which is sad because it reaches such a climax that it leaves you thirsty for more..and it's over.

The whole game was designed around the memetics of the first game. Falling in love with it that much you notice every little thing that seems "off" about it when 2 does it..and then they tell you in the game that the purpose all along was to simulate the first one.

It was a stroke of genius..but it was convoluted and frustrating in its delivery. /typically Japanese.

Although I don't know why you chose those characters like that.

Fortune wasn't involved with Snake in any way..she was her own character.

Olga / Fox
Ocelot...was in MGS2...so why you compare him to Vamp?

WTF are you even on about yo.

Boss fights? what? Ocelot and Vamp weren't the same other than "don't go in the middle or you're dead".

With Vamp you had the shadow shuriken that would trap you in place, you could use grenade rounds to smash him up when he goes diving. In fact...due to technical restraints of MGS1 the two games are no where the same when it comes to boss fights..and don't go comparing it to Twin Snakes.

No boss on MGS1 had you disarming bombs WHILST fighting the boss. Fatman, albeit criminally simple, had an interesting way of having to deal with a boss..the whole "pressure" element.

Fox? Fortune? you don't even fight Fortune. You sit and let her blow shit up until she fucks off. Not even a boss fight.

Don't even act like that was a troll. You were wrong before and now you bring evidence to support it. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:23 pm 
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Jlikew00t wrote:
WALL OF SO MAD TEXT ENDING WITH...

Fox? Fortune? you don't even fight Fortune. You sit and let her blow shit up until she fucks off. Not even a boss fight.

Don't even act like that was a troll. You were wrong before and now you bring evidence to support it. Thanks.

Jesus dude, do you always only read what you want to read,, or are you really just that fucking ignorant?

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:04 pm 
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Yeah was about to say, the proof was in the article pretty clearly. But it's part of what makes talking about MGS2 so great; every time you look at it you could notice something new.

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
Jlikew00t wrote:
WALL OF SO MAD TEXT ENDING WITH...

Fox? Fortune? you don't even fight Fortune. You sit and let her blow shit up until she fucks off. Not even a boss fight.

Don't even act like that was a troll. You were wrong before and now you bring evidence to support it. Thanks.

Jesus dude, do you always only read what you want to read,, or are you really just that fucking ignorant?


Yes. I do...because as a whole; what you said was bad. I got mad reading it..so why would I read further?

Is that so wrong? Its like playing a game and not liking it so you pay even less attention to it to the point that your view of said game is so warped you say its bad when you're in the wrong.

Yes?


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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Is it as bad as, once you find out about said nuances, you still dislike the game because all the characters are unlikable fucktards?

Is it as bad as not reading something someone says, then going on a massive rant about them missing the point when they have in fact got the point?

Is it as bad as having personal opinions?

No wonder Tibe won't touch AGC with the shitty end of a shitty stick anymore...

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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Derp.

One time not reading and I get the full brunt of blame. Oh..

Snap.

If you can dislike 4 for the reasons you would dislike 2 and 3; you're doing it wrong. Everything about Jack in 2 was piss-fucking-annoying.

However, point was that you weren't in the know even when you thought you had it sussed because of the first game.. it still had narrative drive and it was pretty damn good, albeit Japanese. The mechanics were always annoying; fucking camo in 3..much like the Iron Boots, you just get sick of going into the menus.

Still, the narrative was pretty sweet in 3. You have the themes of Patriotism and rather than what's good or bad or right or wrong, but what is purpose. Again, gameplay just as backseat as the previous games..

You judge a FF by its gameplay no? When its as simple as pressing X to jump-rope or follow a beep to a C4 and spray that shit cold.

Where you simply drudge through miles and miles of fucking grassland through random battles or get your dick seen half a mile away by some Genome and having to spend the next 5 minutes getting the fuck out of the way of riot patrols with shields and grenades...hiding inbetween boxes of shameless advertisements for Zone of the Enders.

Reassess. You got to hunt fucking animals and if you didn't play for a few days that shit went rotten. Watch him throw up. Spin him round and watch him throw up. Hide in a box and call radio. Feel unsure of yourself as Raiden runs starkers through Arsenals "rectum".

Come on now. That's not the reason he went AWOL on 'em. Its the lack of appreciation for games..when you see a negative statement towards something and want to approach it constructively, sometimes its hard. This time, you rekindled MY joy for MGS.. it feels rare to get that positivity towards it.. lack of desire to play games when everyone's a critic.

I hate 4 for the bullshit plot. They wankered the gameplay thanks to Call of Duty's rising popularity. Direction got fucked...but irrespective of that; the fucking plot sucked. There's my directed RAGE. Everything up to 4 was peachy.. and then suddenly somebody somewhere had a stroke and put Raiden in high heels, Ocelot having an identity crisis, the legendary radio team are the La-li-lu-le-lo, Gramps got outplayed by the guy who shit his pants at Shadow Moses, Meryl is still a dude, that was the stupidest wedding scene.. where was I.

Bosses were still shite in that one. Except this time they had forced backstories that cried "try hard, final fanfare, pull out all the stops, make up the most ridiculous shit ever" and every boss felt generic "shoot it dead".

If we wanna go hate-train on MGS then lets see what was reused for MGS4 bosses?

Raging Raven = The Fury and...nope, that's about it..only in a tower instead.

Laughing Octopus = Ninja (oh whar she hiding?) and...nope, that's about it..perhaps a bit of Sonic the Hedghog too

Crying Wolf = Sniper Wolf..with Fortune rifle

Psycho Mantis = that thing.

Yerr..Go MGS4.


Shame really. REX vs. RAY was the business.

Even go as far as saying the WWE style brawl with Ocelot was pretty good too.

I'd say fighting Solidus with his Dr. Ock suit and two swords was pretty good too.

I'd also go as far as saying the mano-e-mano with The Boss and doing CQC counters and top tier stun nading was pretty good too.


Wasn't there some sort of fight vs. like 20+ RAY without all that High Heel Cyborg Ninja shit? I'd say that was pretty good also.



Where the love? 2 and 3 were still great..

and outside of:
-8 minute install between chapters
-most of time spent sticking your dick in the ground so's not to get caught
-WTF nanos did it/seriously, like 8 people at yo wedding?, LOL HE HAB NO ARMS AND STILL CUTTING NINJAS UP

4 had its moments.


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 Post subject: Re: MGS, Solid <3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:37 pm 
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I really enjoyed MGS4.

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