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 Post subject: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:49 pm 
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I get where people's complaints came from before MS reversed their policies. I really do. I don't think they would've had much affect on how I use my console personally, but I understand that they would've impacted a lot of people and for that, I'm glad they reversed them.

My question is simply this. At this point, what is so wrong with the Xbox One that people feel compelled to continually trash it? I've rarely seen any rational arguments against it in it's current form.

Let's try and keep this intelligent and civil please.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:23 pm 
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I don't want motion controls, I prefer analog. Microsoft currently will not sell the XB1 without a Kinect, driving the price up. I don't agree with that kind of business practice. I know it's no longer required to be plugged in, but I don't want to buy something I won't use.

Also that dashboard...I feel like they're trying to appeal to an audience that doesn't exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Thanks. I figure that the Kinect argument is one that will come up a lot. I've actually had an opportunity to go hands on with the Kinect 2. And while, I wasn't one of the people they needed to win over (to be clear, I thought the original was weak, but had potential with better hardware), I came away fairly impressed. And I think it's safe to say, it'll take a good deal of time for devs to get comfortable with what the hardware can be used well for and not. Whether motion gaming is worth it or not is obviously a preference argument, and I can appreciate that, but I do feel the Kinect may yet have a lot more to offer than just waggle gaming. Time will tell I suppose. Packing it in however definite opens up a lot of possibilities.

FWIW, I've seen nothing to this point that would make me want to see analog controls replaced by motion for 99% of genres.

I don't find the dashboard that bad, but it's not great either to me. I can see why some wouldn't care for it at all. You can definitely see the Windows 8 influence.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:29 pm 
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I've been reading a whole lot of stories because, quite frankly, I'm still interested in stuff like Killer Instinct, etc.

Here's a few articles I've seen that, while trying to be as unbiased as possible, simply point towards the fact that, technologically, the Xbone appears to be "inferior" but the price is still higher.

Major texture issues in BF4 on Xbone.

Gaming media defending higher price AND lower resolution.

That whole CoD:SpookyGhosts running in 720 on Xbone, 1080 on PS4 thing.

In terms of power, I know that the PS1, PS2 and Wii were all inferior to their competitors yet still dominated the market, but my one and only gripe with the Xbone is purely based on how much I can actually trust MS.

Aside from their u-turns on almost EVERYTHING that was originally announced, you get gems like this:

Original story.
Quote:
"The comments in Ad Age attributed to Yusuf Mehdi were not in relation to Kinect. We do not have plans to target ads or content to you based on any data Kinect collects. We have a long-standing commitment to your privacy and will not target ads to you based on any data Kinect collects unless you choose to allow us to do so. Furthermore, we will give you a clear explanation of what is collected and how it will be used. Importantly, we do not collect your personal information to share or sell to third parties, and you are fully in control over what personal data is shared. We have strict policies to protect your privacy and these policies will continue to be upheld with our next generation product."


Anyone remember PRISM?

I disliked the 360 for reasons I still think valid - a paid online system that still forced adverts at you, a controller that didn't like my hands, the inability to upgrade the HDD, etc - but my dislike for the Xbone is more about the people behind it than the console itself.

If, after the first year or so, it truly is the machine that the gaming crowd wants, and not the overpriced Tivo box that it appears to be, then I shall buy one purely for Killer Instinct.

At the moment, I'm just not convinced.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
but my one and only gripe with the Xbone is purely based on how much I can actually trust MS.

Blokeymon wrote:
but my dislike for the Xbone is more about the people behind it than the console itself.


Both of those.
I don't like Microsoft. I don't like supporting Microsoft.
>but Terra, Sony and Nintendo are just as bad, but not as forthcoming about it!
Maybe. I'm not gonna refute that.
I felt gross even buying Windows though, if Linux had as much support as Windows, I'd completely remove it from my harddrive. I only have it installed for games and the few non-game matters that don't support Linux.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Linux is vastly inferior to Windows. Though, I will admit, Windows 8 is terribad.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Kinda off topic, but I really think linux is going to take off thanks to the direction MS is taking windows. Win9 is going to be completly tile-land according to inside sources that spoke up on TWiT. Valve is jumping on that bandwagon early with SteamOS. It's not going to be a fast transition, though, and I expect Linux to be where Win7 is now in 5-10 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
I've been reading a whole lot of stories because, quite frankly, I'm still interested in stuff like Killer Instinct, etc.

Here's a few articles I've seen that, while trying to be as unbiased as possible, simply point towards the fact that, technologically, the Xbone appears to be "inferior" but the price is still higher.

Major texture issues in BF4 on Xbone.

Gaming media defending higher price AND lower resolution.

That whole CoD:SpookyGhosts running in 720 on Xbone, 1080 on PS4 thing.

In terms of power, I know that the PS1, PS2 and Wii were all inferior to their competitors yet still dominated the market, but my one and only gripe with the Xbone is purely based on how much I can actually trust MS.

Aside from their u-turns on almost EVERYTHING that was originally announced, you get gems like this:

Original story.
Quote:
"The comments in Ad Age attributed to Yusuf Mehdi were not in relation to Kinect. We do not have plans to target ads or content to you based on any data Kinect collects. We have a long-standing commitment to your privacy and will not target ads to you based on any data Kinect collects unless you choose to allow us to do so. Furthermore, we will give you a clear explanation of what is collected and how it will be used. Importantly, we do not collect your personal information to share or sell to third parties, and you are fully in control over what personal data is shared. We have strict policies to protect your privacy and these policies will continue to be upheld with our next generation product."


Anyone remember PRISM?

I disliked the 360 for reasons I still think valid - a paid online system that still forced adverts at you, a controller that didn't like my hands, the inability to upgrade the HDD, etc - but my dislike for the Xbone is more about the people behind it than the console itself.

If, after the first year or so, it truly is the machine that the gaming crowd wants, and not the overpriced Tivo box that it appears to be, then I shall buy one purely for Killer Instinct.

At the moment, I'm just not convinced.


I'd love to have a sit down with developers from some of these companies who are having issues or putting their games out in native 720p instead of 1080p. It's insanity to me that they are struggling with the hardware to produce native 1080p with good textures. It doesn't add up. The 360 hardware was capable of native 1080p games, and the Xbox One is much stronger than the 360 was, even if it's not quite as the same level as the PS4 hardware. These seem more indicative of development issues than hardware restrictions. There are plenty of games coming for XB1's launch that are both 1080p native and 60fps. Forza 5 is one of them. And it's beautiful.

As for your individual concerns. Controller preference is always a factor, and I can respect that, even if I think the 360 controller, and XB1 controller are both significantly better than any Dual Shock iteration I've spent any time with. Paid online is no biggie to me, and I can't say I've ever found the advertisements obtrusive, but again, I can understand why it would rub some people the wrong way to see both subscription and ad revenue being collected on a service others offer free of charge (even if it isn't quite as strong).

I think privacy concerns really get blown out of proportion to be honest, but everyone is entitled to their viewpoints. I don't think Prism cooperation at all means that the Xbox One will be a functionally poor environment when it comes to privacy of data. You guys may call that naive, if you so wish, but as far as I see it, there really isn't much of value to collect through a video game console.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Prof. Chaos wrote:
Kinda off topic, but I really think linux is going to take off thanks to the direction MS is taking windows. Win9 is going to be completly tile-land according to inside sources that spoke up on TWiT. Valve is jumping on that bandwagon early with SteamOS. It's not going to be a fast transition, though, and I expect Linux to be where Win7 is now in 5-10 years.


Well, perhaps. People have been expecting Linux to step up in the market for a long time now. Linux is better than ever, and yes Windows 8 is terrible, but I just see can't a market where Windows doesn't retain it's stranglehold tbh. There is still too much fiddling with regards to Linux, even if though it's improved immensely from where it was.

I can't see Microsoft allowing things to go that far south for Windows. IF Windows 9 is going all tile (and that would be a terrible decision on their part) and they saw a significant market share loss, they would probably keep a failsafe so they can fix it via patch, or they'd release a new OS on a quicker cycle that reinstates the features that people wanted.

I also firmly believe businesses are not at all interested in changing to Linux. They will just stay on Windows 7.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:17 pm 
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@Blokey - You and many people say that Xbone is technically inferior, but it isn't really, because Kinect is a fine bit of kit and is what bumbs the price up. Unfortunately for me, you, and a fuckton of other people, many don't want Kinect, at least not right away. I bought a Kinect, I'd likely buy one for the X1. I don't want to HAVE to pay extra for what is (whch is now) an optional peripheral. It no longer needs it, it shouldn't ship with it. Simple as.

Regarding the better graphics compared to the playstation 4, I really don't give a shit. Yes the previousl 2 xboxes were the best for graphics but it's not the reason I bought the console. It's not why many of us buy the consoles. I don't care that X1 has DDR3 RAM. It's not a boatload different. That Battlefield comparison between the two consoles? I barely saw a different and while Kotaku fags were all "Oh X1 is better", oh shit "PS4 wins", I was all "Yeah nigs, game looks good". I mean, I'm hardly gonna be sat at home going "Holy fuck Battlefield 4 is amazebaws, but I wish those textures looked slightly better and the partical effects looked slightly more vivid". Because (and agree with me here guys), I think we can all agree if we really were that hellbent on graphics, and nothing but graphics, then we'd all just be fucking PC users exclusively, and posting that fucking Zero Punctuation "PC Master race" picture that wasn't overused a fucking year ago.

Anyway, so graphics are fine. But the TV business? I got a Sony TV this year with a Sony Internet TV box that came free. It was basically an Xbone that didn't play games, but allowed me to go online, stream music from my server, download apps, etc, all with the TV in the corner or just a button away. Guess what...it was fucking brilliant. Very functional, very very good. I only sold it because it came free and my housemate is buying an xbox this month which will do the same thing. I'm gonna enjoy it's functionality. I saw the xbox one dashboard video, snapping windows together etc, it looked really smooth and nice. It's no doubt gonna be a nice console, maybe after a patch or two. It'll also mean I can force CoD to put me in games with people of similar skill, rather than cnuts that have nothing better to do than play, who always fucking beat me (which is why I always hated cod). I can wait for these games while watching telly, skyping, or browsing the net. Someone tell me that's not a cool feature, even if it isn't necessary.

I do have my gripes, mainly the same ones as Carl. Paying for gold AND getting adverts. I'm fine with a sub, just not when I feel it's already payed for elsewhere. The community was an issue a few years ago but recently (especially since last e3) I've found the Sony community to be nothing but twats. On Kotaku, even on g+. It's a fucking war to some people. That said, I've seen my fair share of xbots giving it "Oh fucking, see the power of cloud computing, Xbox One will be th best, sony is shittttzzz" and I just wanna stop gaming forever.

Sorry this has been a lot, and please tell me what you guys think. I've mainly spoken about the xbox one, mainly because it frankly has the most issues. PS4? Fucking love the look of it, and I'll be getting it when I can afford it after xmas. I did preorder but I wont have the money for it anymore sadly.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:32 pm 
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I feel like that is a common misconception about the new kinect. while its no longer manditory to attach it, you would be hurting your experience to do so. They bent to public pressure regarding it being required but in the end the system was still designed with the kinect as a core component and its future success is dependent on it being so, not a peripheral. I still feel to this day, required attachment or not, bundled is the right decision

the onus is now on ms to lead the way in showing why kinect was a good idea. if they cannot drive innovation and usage this gen, kinect will be gone next

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Ax wrote:
Anyway, so graphics are fine. But the TV business? I got a Sony TV this year with a Sony Internet TV box that came free. It was basically an Xbone that didn't play games, but allowed me to go online, stream music from my server, download apps, etc, all with the TV in the corner or just a button away. Guess what...it was fucking brilliant. Very functional, very very good.

You just described a SmartTV which is what we have, and which is what is - much like HDTV did - becoming "the standard". Apps all over the goddamn place, hooked up to the router for streaming, the total balls.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:44 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
Ax wrote:
Anyway, so graphics are fine. But the TV business? I got a Sony TV this year with a Sony Internet TV box that came free. It was basically an Xbone that didn't play games, but allowed me to go online, stream music from my server, download apps, etc, all with the TV in the corner or just a button away. Guess what...it was fucking brilliant. Very functional, very very good.

You just described a SmartTV which is what we have, and which is what is - much like HDTV did - becoming "the standard". Apps all over the goddamn place, hooked up to the router for streaming, the total balls.


Yeah, that was a better way of explaining. But I got this free probably because most Tvs are smart nowerdays, and this wasn't.

As for Kinect, given how much is pumps up the price, I still feel it should be optional. It's optional to use, it should be optional to purchase. If it added maybe £50 onto the price then maybe, but not after adding £80, that's still too much for me. Well I won't have to buy an X1 anyhow.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
If, after the first year or so, it truly is the machine that the gaming crowd wants, and not the overpriced Tivo box that it appears to be, then I shall buy one purely for Killer Instinct.

At the moment, I'm just not convinced.


Basically, this, except for Fable Legends in my own case.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple Question.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:46 am 
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I have nothing to contribute to this thread so I am going to just up my post count and scream PC MASTER RACE AX AND SYPHER ARE M$ FAGGOTS!

That is what you guys probably read when I post in these threads.

I think the reason the SteamOS came to light was due to the fact of the windows app store on windows 8. Gaben doesn't want a future where Microsoft makes it so that you can only download programs from their app store etc... Microsoft could block Valve if they wanted too and that would screw them over. I do think Linux will gain more support once SteamOS is launched and AMD and Nvidia will develop better graphic drivers and gaming companies will have more of a reason to make games for Linux. Now, the problem I have with the Xbone is the fact that Microsoft is trying to make it a windows 8 computer with gimped PC functions while the PS4 has more of a console feel. The big issue with the xbone and why the internet is knocking it down is due to all the damage and all the reports that came out when the xbox one was announced and then all the back peddling Microsoft had to do if they wanted to sell consoles.

Really these consoles are just becoming gimped PC's and are getting more and more expensive each time they come out with a new console. Valve sees this which is why steam machines are coming out next year and they will be computers of the living room. You can install Windows on a steam machine if you like it will just come with the SteamOS and a controller.

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