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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Ax wrote:
1) To be fair man, most TVs come with a fuckload of inputs at the back, I'm sure there's space for your PS2. And even if not, an adapter that allows you multiple inputs into one port will likely cost you less at your local tech store than it would cost extra on top of the console to add that feature. Not that many consoles have had backwards compatibility, if you think about it. If the architecture if that much different in order to produce a better console to develop for, then I personally think they made the right choice. Plus they have hinted at a possibility to play your Live Arcade games in the future.

2) You have an allotted time just like Steam. Plus what happens when someone buys an MMO and it doesn't have a single player mode? I remember when everyone who I told about an MMO I was playing thought I was an idiot for paying monthly for a game I just bought that required an online connection. It soon came to be accepted. Are people entitled to an offline mode in MMOs? If they want you to be online so they can improve your experience then I say let them try. I dunno about whether it's something I'm gonna but yet but I think there's definitely another side to what you're saying.

3) You can still take a physical game to a friend's house and play it. Being logged in is something you'd still need to do by taking a Live Arcade game to your friend's house on a USB stick. Or if you want to show your friend a game on Steam, you gotta be online and verify it. It's the same principle.

And before anyone says "Well I don't buy a console to have the same restrictions as a PC". No, but you hardly agree with those restrictions because they're on a different format, you've just learned to accept it because it's been forced upon you. Regardless of whether you play it on a laptop or a console, you're still playing a game. Wether you're sat at a desk or chilling on your couch, the principle is the same.


1.) My Wii takes up the ports my PS2 would be using, I guess it would have been more apt to say "to swap from Smash Bros to Viewtiful Joe."

2.) Joey covered the "Steam offline mode works forever" thing.
And pls don't compare MMOs to singleplayer games. You're splitting hairs just for the sake of it.

3.) You still have to install the game on their machine, that doesn't really fly anymore.
And PCs are strictly digital media, my local supermarket still has physical copies of the original Bioshock around from when they first put them out because no one fucking buys physical PC games.
We are talking about an actual disc that you actually really truly own that is (basically) COMPLETELY USELESS on any machine except yours, which has NEVER been the case on consoles. It's an enormous step backwards.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:26 pm 
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Prof. Chaos wrote:
The real problem is they're forcing kinect into everything. That shit needs to stop.


Really? I still haven't seen anything that says it need to be USED for anything aside from Kinect only games.

It needs to be plugged in =/= you need to control the navigation with voice/gestures.


Basically, as long as you use your gamertag to sign into the game at a friends house, you're set and it won't count as 'lending'.

I do that already anyway since it's simple as fuck to do.

The 'entitlement' thing that was brought up I'm sure was specifically in reference to used games. It's ALWAYS been entitlement with used games. Name ANY other thing where people expect to sell it back to a store for a credit (and still cry about how little they get) and then expect them to be readily available used AT ALL TIMES. You can't, can you? Sure, you can run into some random used bookstores, but Gamestop is a video-game centric PAWN SHOP. They're not there to get you a good deal, nor were they ever there to get you a good deal.

I honestly can't WAIT for the day that used games are dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:02 pm 
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Preowned DVDs, CDs, games and books can be found in almost any entertainment store in the UK.

I would never expect to be able to resell anything digital.

I expect to be able to lend, resell, borrow, trade or otherwise pass on anything physical.

Console gaming and PC gaming are meant to be two different things. Also, new console games are a minimum of £10 more than the PC counterpart, even digitally. Hell, some digital console releases are more expensive that the console disc version! This is one of the reasons I think MS's new direction is retarded, because I don't see them changing the pricing structures to match the PC gaming platform they are so badly imitating.

But fuck me, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Gotta get involved with this since there is a lot of things flying around and people are not seeing the bigger picture.

For starters, Xbox One, and probably PS4, are going down the digital route similar to steam. Steam is cheaper because they are not selling hardware at a loss like Sony and Microsoft do therefore they do not need to charge a licensing fee.

Any Xbox one game you buy at retail will simply be an install disc with a serial key.

The bigger picture here is, and it ties in with the 24hr online checking, is that Microsoft are actually going to allow you to trade in/give away your games, unlike steam where they are bound to you for life and are only accessible to the account that bought them.

The 24hr checks are to support this feature, they need to make sure you are not playing games you have already given away or traded. Without these checks they would not be able to do this and therefore they would have to block used games completely.

So in summary, ironic as it is, Microsofts anti consumer online requirements are actually in aid of making the console/service more consumer friendly.


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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:00 pm 
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So MS are going to allow us to do what we've been doing for years?

How bloody generous of the bastards.

PS. Fuckin' howdy, Spearmint! :hi:

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Iwata, save us!

Fuck this system. I love to play older games. I don't have to worry when I buy games for my PS2 that they won't work because I don't have the rights.

If it was like Steam, where is is seamless, I wouldn't mind. This is just contrived with a bunch of scraps thrown here or there.

And when this industry gets past the fact that rentals piracy used games are not the issue for layoffs, missed projections and losses, they might get their heads out of their asses and realize that 600 fucking people to make the shit that is Resident Evil 6, or 3.5million copies of Tomb Raider is "below expectations", that how games are made and marketed are the issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Blokeymon wrote:
But fuck me, right?


Pretty much.

It's not for you, simple as that. Kinda how it's not for people with no net connection, or people who have some sort of weird boner for used games.

Unlike the majority of the people crying about it online (the ones that currently own 360's at least, not the ones that hate xbox for the sake of hating), I know you're one of the few people that actually understands the concept of voting with your wallet by NOT PURCHASING IT.

Novel idea to lots of people it seems from the way discussions I see on various articles and facebook pan out.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:54 pm 
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HGW XX/7 wrote:
Blokeymon wrote:
But fuck me, right?


Pretty much.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:17 pm 
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thegamecubist wrote:
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Iwata, save us!

Fuck this system. I love to play older games. I don't have to worry when I buy games for my PS2 that they won't work because I don't have the rights.

If it was like Steam, where is is seamless, I wouldn't mind. This is just contrived with a bunch of scraps thrown here or there.

And when this industry gets past the fact that rentals piracy used games are not the issue for layoffs, missed projections and losses, they might get their heads out of their asses and realize that 600 fucking people to make the shit that is Resident Evil 6, or 3.5million copies of Tomb Raider is "below expectations", that how games are made and marketed are the issue.


Fucking this.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Terradude wrote:
1.) People freaked out when the PS3 dropped backwards compatibility, it was and remains really stupid. I don't like having to move my huge-ass HDTV and fiddle around with a fuckload of cables to swap from playing Viewtiful Joe to Skullgirls. I think that holds true of most people.

2.) Wanting to be able to play regular offline games without having an internet connection is entitlement? LOL.

3.) Wanting to be able to take a physical game to a friend's house is entitlement? LOL.


1.) Hardly anyone gave a shit when the backwards compatibility was removed from the PS3 because it's a completely unnecessary feature. Fact of the matter is hardware bc drives up the cost of a new system. The Emotion engine was removed from the PS3 so that it could be given the price drop it so badly needed. It sucks that setting up your Xbox will inconvenient, but frankly, it's not worth the extra $100 on the launch price (the reported amount the emotion engine added to the PS3 price).

I never said that people were hipsters for specifically that reason, but I do see how you made that connection looking at it now. That said, as much as it sucks for many people, sometimes to progress you have to leave people behind in the process. Consider XBL going broadband-only in 2002. There are several good reasons for MS to take this console to a required online position, and believe it or not lots of them are not DRM related and could actually benefit the consumer in the long run.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Sypher_04 wrote:
Terradude wrote:
1.) People freaked out when the PS3 dropped backwards compatibility, it was and remains really stupid. I don't like having to move my huge-ass HDTV and fiddle around with a fuckload of cables to swap from playing Viewtiful Joe to Skullgirls. I think that holds true of most people.

2.) Wanting to be able to play regular offline games without having an internet connection is entitlement? LOL.

3.) Wanting to be able to take a physical game to a friend's house is entitlement? LOL.


1.) Hardly anyone gave a shit when the backwards compatibility was removed from the PS3 because it's a completely unnecessary feature. Fact of the matter is hardware bc drives up the cost of a new system. The Emotion engine was removed from the PS3 so that it could be given the price drop it so badly needed. It sucks that setting up your Xbox will inconvenient, but frankly, it's not worth the extra $100 on the launch price (the reported amount the emotion engine added to the PS3 price).


That's revisionist history, people went apeshit when Sony took that out. Even in a Kotaku article discussing why the Slim didn't have BC that was posted about two years after the initial removal, half of the comments from the article are complaining about the lack of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Bokuten wrote:
Ax wrote:

2) You have an allotted time just like Steam. Plus what happens when someone buys an MMO and it doesn't have a single player mode? I remember when everyone who I told about an MMO I was playing thought I was an idiot for paying monthly for a game I just bought that required an online connection. It soon came to be accepted. Are people entitled to an offline mode in MMOs? If they want you to be online so they can improve your experience then I say let them try. I dunno about whether it's something I'm gonna but yet but I think there's definitely another side to what you're saying.

3) You can still take a physical game to a friend's house and play it. Being logged in is something you'd still need to do by taking a Live Arcade game to your friend's house on a USB stick. Or if you want to show your friend a game on Steam, you gotta be online and verify it. It's the same principle.


#2 I am laughing how you are saying an MMO should be entitled to an offline mode. A MMO. Massive Multiplayer online game... offline.... Sorry but I thought that was funny. Also Steam doesn't have a time limit for you to play games offline. As long as the game is 100% ready to be played you can play it offline. As in the game is downloaded 100%

#3 Going on steam at a friends house is no way like this. You can only do this once with a friend. With steam you have to verify it with steam guard but once you do that you can play on your friends/ any computer multiple times. If steam went the Xbox one way I would only be able to reformat one time because they would be thinking I am using a friends computer and that is that. Steam would be dead if that was the case.

I really don't think any of you actually see the problem here because it doesn't bother your everyday life. Hey, you like what you like. You gotta experience it to understand it. It is your money and if you wanna buy this system and support this, nuts to ya!


Your insistence that PC is so great and MS is acting stupid is quite comical as far as I'm concerned. Even after making these changes that MS is making, it will still be a less restricted environment than PC games.

Going on steam at a friends house is almost exactly like this. Sign in to your account, you can download you game, install it, play it. Not once, but however many times you so wish. The once only restriction only applies to giving your game away to someone else. I'll give you the offline mode is forever thing, but for 80%-90% of people this is going to be a non issue, even if they choose to bitch incessantly about it.

Terradude wrote:
3.) You still have to install the game on their machine, that doesn't really fly anymore.
And PCs are strictly digital media, my local supermarket still has physical copies of the original Bioshock around from when they first put them out because no one fucking buys physical PC games.
We are talking about an actual disc that you actually really truly own that is (basically) COMPLETELY USELESS on any machine except yours, which has NEVER been the case on consoles. It's an enormous step backwards.


Aside from Xbox One actually preserving some of your rights there is no difference between PC gaming and this. You can't do anything beyond installation of physical copy PC games either.

You cannot seriously believe that developers and publishers were going to sit back, watch their budgets and time required to make games escalate, profits sink and no eventually have a problem with the current state of the video game industry. This is an inevitable shift, and probably next gen we won't have physical copies at all. The used game market being squeezed sucks for us, granted, but it's probably better for the long term health of the industry.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Smokey wrote:
Sypher_04 wrote:
Terradude wrote:
1.) People freaked out when the PS3 dropped backwards compatibility, it was and remains really stupid. I don't like having to move my huge-ass HDTV and fiddle around with a fuckload of cables to swap from playing Viewtiful Joe to Skullgirls. I think that holds true of most people.

2.) Wanting to be able to play regular offline games without having an internet connection is entitlement? LOL.

3.) Wanting to be able to take a physical game to a friend's house is entitlement? LOL.


1.) Hardly anyone gave a shit when the backwards compatibility was removed from the PS3 because it's a completely unnecessary feature. Fact of the matter is hardware bc drives up the cost of a new system. The Emotion engine was removed from the PS3 so that it could be given the price drop it so badly needed. It sucks that setting up your Xbox will inconvenient, but frankly, it's not worth the extra $100 on the launch price (the reported amount the emotion engine added to the PS3 price).


That's revisionist history, people went apeshit when Sony took that out. Even in a Kotaku article discussing why the Slim didn't have BC that was posted about two years after the initial removal, half of the comments from the article are complaining about the lack of it.


Meh, I guess I didn't see it personally. That's fine, doesn't change the facts of why it was removed, and why it was the right decision for the platform and 90% of the buyers (the percentage that will barely ever, or never put a PS1 or PS2 game into their PS3)

Backwards compatibility plays right back into that gamer entitlement thing I was talking about. Xbox one won't play Xbox 360 games. The only people who should even slightly care are people with a 360 library. You know what else 90% of those people will have... a 360.

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 Post subject: Re: Xbox One - official announcement: DRM, trades, lending,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:25 pm 
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thegamecubist wrote:
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Iwata, save us!

Fuck this system. I love to play older games. I don't have to worry when I buy games for my PS2 that they won't work because I don't have the rights.

If it was like Steam, where is is seamless, I wouldn't mind. This is just contrived with a bunch of scraps thrown here or there.

And when this industry gets past the fact that rentals piracy used games are not the issue for layoffs, missed projections and losses, they might get their heads out of their asses and realize that 600 fucking people to make the shit that is Resident Evil 6, or 3.5million copies of Tomb Raider is "below expectations", that how games are made and marketed are the issue.


I don't entirely agree with this. Used games are a PART of the problem, along with the same things you mentioned.

Maybe Xbox One won't be the smoothest off the bat as they figure it all out, but it could certainly get to the level of Steam within a couple years and maybe then it entices you some more.

fwiw as well, people are assuming that Xbox One games won't be usable beyond the consoles lifetime. Do you have any idea how easy it'd basically have a kill switch at the end of the gen that'd cease things like used game DRM and online requirements etc from being checked.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:21 am 
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So why is it that the games industry managed quite well to survive the blight that is "used games" from 1990 right up until now?

Many of my SNES games were preowned. Remember how that console suffered?

Oh wait...

The PS1 saw used games become a massive thing. Remember how they almost killed the PS1? Oh hang on...

Well, surely you all remember how the PS2 suffered at the hands of used games? Oh wait... No it didn't...

Used games are being used as scapegoats. Its just like cubist said, when a game costs more to advertise than it does to make, used games aren't the problem...

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