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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:35 pm 
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SugaFree wrote:
I am more concerned at the fighting game front.

Areas in SoCal have a bunch of 360s/PS3s for tournaments and they are not connected online. When I have sessions at a friends house I take my 360 so that we have more stations to play at. If always onliine is true, then I cannot do this anymore.

Fuck that mess, even Steam had an offline mode. When my internet was out for a few hours,I was still able to play games Fallout New Vegas.


Get a PS4 instead. Problem solved.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:14 pm 
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I can no longer look at this thread because everyone is making angry assumptions over something they know nothing about.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:47 pm 
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I'm hoping the reported rumours are wrong. A world without a competitor as strong as the Xbox just leaves the market open for shit.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:11 am 
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Blokeymon wrote:
I'm hoping the reported rumours are wrong. A world without a competitor as strong as the Xbox just leaves the market open for shit.


The only way the XBOX won't be a competitor is if the new console requires you to have a Gold membership to even function.

Otherwise, you're overblowing your estimation to near painful extents.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:17 am 
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HGW XX/7 wrote:
SugaFree wrote:
I am more concerned at the fighting game front.

Areas in SoCal have a bunch of 360s/PS3s for tournaments and they are not connected online. When I have sessions at a friends house I take my 360 so that we have more stations to play at. If always onliine is true, then I cannot do this anymore.

Fuck that mess, even Steam had an offline mode. When my internet was out for a few hours,I was still able to play games Fallout New Vegas.


Get a PS4 instead. Problem solved.


Well that is the thing; it has been proven time and time again that Capcom 2D fighters are superior on 360 because of lag time. What if the outcome is similar in the future? To the average Joe, people won't see the difference. This has been proven true though through video documentation.

I got people in Mexico that do not have internet access and they love Xbox. What about them? They are paying customers too. They can't play the next Gears of War or Halo

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:33 am 
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SugaFree wrote:

Well that is the thing; it has been proven time and time again that Capcom 2D fighters are superior on 360 because of lag time. What if the outcome is similar in the future? To the average Joe, people won't see the difference. This has been proven true though through video documentation.

I got people in Mexico that do not have internet access and they love Xbox. What about them? They are paying customers too. They can't play the next Gears of War or Halo


If they care that much about their online fighting action, they'll get the new XBOX. It's based on their priorities.

And no. No they can't play the next Gears or Halo single player without the net authentication, because they won't be paying customers unless: 1.) They buy the new console they won't be able to use, which would be rather foolish of them. 2.) They get internet.

If the new console requires you to always be connected, it's clear that Microsoft has no desire to market to console to anyone or anywhere that can't fulfill that requirement. Simple.

If the next console launches, and the next Halo title sells shittons like the others, and the always on functionality dramatically cuts out piracy and the like (making PUBLISHERS happy), do you think Microsoft or those publishers are really going to care about leaving people out? Nope.

If the next console launches and the next Halo bombs because it turns out that, holy shit, nobody has internet and the console is worthless to them, then I guess Microsoft'll be out. S'how it works.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:08 am 
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All I know is y'all crazeh fooz better not ever rail on fans of anything else when you're legitimately defending always-online DRM on a home console.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:18 am 
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Terradude wrote:
All I know is y'all crazeh fooz better not ever rail on fans of anything else when you're legitimately defending always-online DRM on a home console.


I don't rail on FANS of anything else, but any game that can't be played with traditional controls on the Wii U clearly isn't looking for my money.

I understand and am okay with that.

If Bayonetta 2 doesn't allow traditional controls, I may kill something, but I'll decide whether it's worth putting up with the bullshit to play.

Y'know, like always online DRM.

One of those is a bigger inconvenience to me. Guess which one it is.

That's switched around for tons of other people.

That's cool. It all ultimately boils down to buy it or don't either way.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:40 am 
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So I just read through the whole thread, and am ready to drop my 2 cents in the ring.

Prof - Speculation on something that is potentially unhealthy for the industry is a good conversation topic, though I get what you mean. The only thing that fuels this fire is the fact that many 'insiders' are saying it's confirmed. Well, that and the fact that one of the Microsoft higher-ups had been defending the concept to the death over Twitter.

HGW - I completely see what you're saying, but I've gotta respectfully disagree here. You're saying that most people play the Xbox for multiplayer, so without internet you'd probably not play at all right? Imagine a few scenarios though, where this would be a much bigger inconvenience than it initially seems with that point of view. I'm not about to start yelling YOUR OPINION IS WRONG, but I'll at least attempt to shed some light on why stuff like this will be unhealthy for the industry if it catches on; because THAT is what people are really afraid of.

Say you're in a party and your friends decide to hop on Call of Halo: Shooterwarfare. That's well and fun, but what if you've a wireless connection that gets iffy when bad weather rolls in? Rather than lagging for a few minutes, playing with an unstable connection, you're instantly booted back to the dashboard and are logged out. Okay, sure, just log back in, right? Wrong. Until your connection's 100% golden, you're outta luck. Sure, you can play something else, but that event that you grabbed your snacks and sat yourself down to play is now inaccessible over a minor issue.

Or how about when all your friends are together and you want to play split-screen? They all bring their 720 controllers over, and they're ready to play some games and have fun. But what's this? Your Xbox refuses to connect to your modem, and you can't quite figure the reason out. After troubleshooting for hours, you can't quite seem to get it fixed. That one game you were hoping to play for the next several hours is now just sitting in front of you unplayable. Sure, it's easily solved by playing something else, but it's easily avoidable by letting you simply play the console offline. It's not even like you need to connect to play splitscreen, right? Someone touched on this by mentioning tourneys and such.

Now, you'll easily be able to just up and ignore those top two examples. Similar things have already been said, but here's the hardest hitter: What are you going to do when Microsoft moves on? With the idea of an always-online connection, servers are required to monitor and allow the users access to the system's functions. What happens when Microsoft works on the 900 and decides to flip the switch for the 720 servers? There's always the possibility that they'd be able to unlock every console before-hand, but what if they're built in such a way that negates the ability to do so (to avoid people finding out a way to play offline)?

Now, again, you've mentioned that Microsoft has probably thought things like this through, but what of the other companies that think the idea works? What if they begin making every last piece of technology require a constant online connection? That's asking a little bit more than needing electricity, which is TONS more reliable than the average internet connection nowadays (ESPECIALLY depending on where you live). You've seen the launches of both Diablo 3 and SimCity 5, where it took at the very least a week (sometimes more) before people were able to just flip on the game and play. And even at that, people are still having issues with the game (while their internet is connected). It goes a lot further than just a simple internet connection, which we all do usually have going. It's unstable, and doesn't look good for the long-term of electronic devices as a whole. It goes further past just video games, and it spells out something quite grim for the future.

And I'll state again: I'm not trying to simply victimize anyone (or any console). I'm simply stating how the idea of having a constant online connection to access a service has been proven to be ineffective as of now. Twice even. To pull something like this on a much more grand scale would not only inconvenience a huge amount of any consumer base, but would also cut out a huge portion of them altogether. The internet's pretty great, but it isn't standardized enough to be leveled up against things like electricity and water, which have complex systems that are built into every modern house nowadays... That's just my two cents though.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:44 am 
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I get what you're saying, but in your first scenario either:

1.) The 'always-on' functionality functions just like Xbox LIVE does right now anyway. That is, you'd still continue playing in your laggy match.

2.) It kicks you out at the slightest hint of a troubled connection as you say, and everyone else playing doesn't have to deal with someone else's shitty connection.

Either way will work, and I have a feeling it will be the former rather than the latter. If it is the latter, hey, it just isn't for people with bad net set-ups or spotty ISPs, but at least everyone else doesn't have to deal with a laggy match (or long painful string of matches) due to one bad egg.

We'll see when it happens. Believe me, if it is the latter and my connection isn't up to snuff, I'll be the first person to follow my own advice and just say, "Oh well, not for me at this time, I guess." and seek out my gaming elsewhere. Like I said though, I have a feeling it'll be the way it is currently: It takes a fucking TERRIBLE connection for it to actually sign you off of Xbox LIVE.

Hell if they want to get even smarter about it, have it so the net connection is only required to boot the game. That way if internet in that area is THAT atrocious, it won't sign you out and drop your progress in the middle of a single player session.

As for the question of "what happens after the console cycle", I have no idea. Either the platform becomes entirely useless and obsolete. Everything you purchased for it is rendered entirely useless, or if it's the way I stated earlier where all that is required is a quick authentication for the game to boot perhaps they're wise enough to maintain the minimal server power that would be required to keep the phased out consoles active? That will be something we'd have to find out more about later. It wouldn't be so much about having full servers for online play, so much as it would be connecting your Gold/Silver Membership Gamertag (tied to your Microsoft account) connecting to Microsoft servers (any of them) to verify. In that scenario, unless Microsoft ends up with ZERO servers for ALL of that stuff that's tied to your Microsoft Account (Outlook, Skydrive, Video/Music, Skype, etc.), you'd be fine.

As for the final bit.

1.) Your network setup is poor, and should either be upgraded or just plain fixed.

2.) If it's your ISP that is the shitty thing, then you shouldn't've bought the console.


If anything, I see it as "ISPs and various regions need to get their shit together and actually do something about their net infrastructure before this console would be viable for me." rather than "This console is bullshit because other things suck."

I'll wait until full details and specs are actually announced before I start asking any various questions I may still have that aren't answered at that time. If it turns out that it won't fly with my net connection, oh well, I won't get it.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:05 am 
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That's well and fair enough.
I do agree that Murrika (and a few other places) really need to get up to speed with internet infrastructure. Compared to a few countries, I hear that we're pretty far behind in speedtests. I'm unsure about Europe, but I heard that Japan (again, and other places) has ridiculously fast speeds.

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:48 am 
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HGW XX/7 wrote:
I get what you're saying, but in your first scenario either:

1.) The 'always-on' functionality functions just like Xbox LIVE does right now anyway. That is, you'd still continue playing in your laggy match.

2.) It kicks you out at the slightest hint of a troubled connection as you say, and everyone else playing doesn't have to deal with someone else's shitty connection.

Either way will work, and I have a feeling it will be the former rather than the latter. If it is the latter, hey, it just isn't for people with bad net set-ups or spotty ISPs, but at least everyone else doesn't have to deal with a laggy match (or long painful string of matches) due to one bad egg.

We'll see when it happens. Believe me, if it is the latter and my connection isn't up to snuff, I'll be the first person to follow my own advice and just say, "Oh well, not for me at this time, I guess." and seek out my gaming elsewhere. Like I said though, I have a feeling it'll be the way it is currently: It takes a fucking TERRIBLE connection for it to actually sign you off of Xbox LIVE.

Hell if they want to get even smarter about it, have it so the net connection is only required to boot the game. That way if internet in that area is THAT atrocious, it won't sign you out and drop your progress in the middle of a single player session.

As for the question of "what happens after the console cycle", I have no idea. Either the platform becomes entirely useless and obsolete. Everything you purchased for it is rendered entirely useless, or if it's the way I stated earlier where all that is required is a quick authentication for the game to boot perhaps they're wise enough to maintain the minimal server power that would be required to keep the phased out consoles active? That will be something we'd have to find out more about later. It wouldn't be so much about having full servers for online play, so much as it would be connecting your Gold/Silver Membership Gamertag (tied to your Microsoft account) connecting to Microsoft servers (any of them) to verify. In that scenario, unless Microsoft ends up with ZERO servers for ALL of that stuff that's tied to your Microsoft Account (Outlook, Skydrive, Video/Music, Skype, etc.), you'd be fine.

As for the final bit.

1.) Your network setup is poor, and should either be upgraded or just plain fixed.

2.) If it's your ISP that is the shitty thing, then you shouldn't've bought the console.


If anything, I see it as "ISPs and various regions need to get their shit together and actually do something about their net infrastructure before this console would be viable for me." rather than "This console is bullshit because other things suck."

I'll wait until full details and specs are actually announced before I start asking any various questions I may still have that aren't answered at that time. If it turns out that it won't fly with my net connection, oh well, I won't get it.


Homes, I get it. I know what choo sayin bro. Baso, if they don't like it, don't buy the console.

But, in your opinion, what do you feel about people who have a shitty connection to the net who don't feel that the NextBox is right for them, but have purchased plenty of online games and racked up loads of achievements on the current gen? Yes, they could keep their old console and have their leap to next gen just be a PS4, I know it's not a HUGE issue, but it kinda sucks to me to think that I'd have to change my first next gen console to a different one, otherwise I have to stay with a console that's last gen. I mean this doesn't apply to me because I'm pretty much down the middle with PS3 and 360 anyway (I like to think)
I just mean this will apply to some people.

Also, you say people should get a new router or change ISP or whatever, as quoted above, some people get back interference when it rains heavily or gets too cold. Mine does here in Scotland, when it's too cold anyway. For some reason the cold snow doesn't do the Exchange-to-House co-ax cables any good and I find myself without a connection.

Yeah you say not to blame the console on the shitty state of the net? Well that shitty state of the net is not shitty yet, it's just not at it's target. That's technology at the moment. Always online connected consoles are not. I feel it's not so much that the net is behind as all over the world, people seldom have connections that are THAT stable. I feel this console (if all these rumours are true) is asking way too much of current technology.

As I said before, I agree with the always-online method...just not until shit improves.

Also bro, when we next Forza'ing?

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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:15 am 
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It will be annoying for some, yes. It will cause some frustration amongst the hardcore with their ISPs or whatever their setup might be.

The sad thing is that the largest impact this will probably cause is just set a standard for later hardware generations, and even then the vast majority of people are simply not going to care.

The weird thing is you'd at least assume that Microsoft, given its not-so-proven hardware track record over the last few years, would at least consider a small attempt towards the reversal of this decision now that SimCity has been repeatedly shat all over by EA, and very recently, too.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: New Xbox to require permanent connection - thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Ax wrote:
Homes, I get it. I know what choo sayin bro. Baso, if they don't like it, don't buy the console.

But, in your opinion, what do you feel about people who have a shitty connection to the net who don't feel that the NextBox is right for them, but have purchased plenty of online games and racked up loads of achievements on the current gen? Yes, they could keep their old console and have their leap to next gen just be a PS4, I know it's not a HUGE issue, but it kinda sucks to me to think that I'd have to change my first next gen console to a different one, otherwise I have to stay with a console that's last gen. I mean this doesn't apply to me because I'm pretty much down the middle with PS3 and 360 anyway (I like to think)
I just mean this will apply to some people.

Also, you say people should get a new router or change ISP or whatever, as quoted above, some people get back interference when it rains heavily or gets too cold. Mine does here in Scotland, when it's too cold anyway. For some reason the cold snow doesn't do the Exchange-to-House co-ax cables any good and I find myself without a connection.

Yeah you say not to blame the console on the shitty state of the net? Well that shitty state of the net is not shitty yet, it's just not at it's target. That's technology at the moment. Always online connected consoles are not. I feel it's not so much that the net is behind as all over the world, people seldom have connections that are THAT stable. I feel this console (if all these rumours are true) is asking way too much of current technology.

As I said before, I agree with the always-online method...just not until shit improves.

Also bro, when we next Forza'ing?


1.) I thought I was pretty clear on what I thought about those people: Tough shit. It's not for you. That includes me if it wouldn't work for me.

2.) Oh well. It's not like those games will be downloadable and playable on the new console for free (at least... TERRIBLY unlikely). Oh well, your Gamerscore is gone and you're working on your shit with Trophies now. Actually, when you consider how large of a community there is that is absolutely OBSESSED with their e-penis number, there's a good amount that would probably buy the console REGARDLESS.

3.) As I already said, it takes a REALLY shitty connection to actually lag out of XBOX Live. If your connection is so pitiful that you can't maintain at least a reasonably reliable connection (as stated before, it seems to take a full loss of connection for a rather long amount of time to actually be signed out of Xbox LIVE), you shouldn't be playing on LIVE to begin with, Microsoft clearly only cares about those with LIVE, and it's just not for you (or me or whoever has such an ass connection). I don't see why everyone assumes you'll be signed out at the tiniest fluctuation when that's far from how it is now, where it's possible to maintain a constant connection for over a month because it takes hardly anything to just connect to LIVE.

4.) I disagree. The idea of always-online connection isn't ahead of its time, it's random ISP's and the like that are behind the times. Can't fulfill the requirement? Can't play the games. Don't buy the console until you can. It's STILL a simple premise to me. Don't buy boat and get pissed that you can't use it because you live in a desert. Sometimes stuff just isn't for everyone, yeah?

5.) Not sure, I may have some time for Forza'ing in a couple weeks. I'll let'cha know, bro.

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