You all have the concept of "Pirate or Pirating" all wrong.

Pirates are the one that actually re-sell, or in one way or another make money off of the ill gotten booty.

What Al did was at most, a theft. But seeing how it was use as a demo, and he bought the game, no one was harmed and legit peeps got paid.

You know what, i am going to do naughty just because HGW has totally rubbed me the wrong way. yeah, just to be dick.

Erbs is now in Dick Mode. flame away as I don't' give a fuck.

Is there a right way to rub up a 40 year old furfag?

yes, with a fuzzy glove!!!!

Now give me my panda!!!!

Erbs: He DIDN'T buy the game, nor did he use it as a demo. He completed it. Since when is completing a full game a demo? He said he was waiting for a sale on Steam before he buys it. It's pretty clear the reason for going this route is to play the game as much as you want (in this case completely), with the intention of then using that to gauge your pricepoint when you'll pull the trigger on buying it. If he didn't like it all that much, he wouldn't buy it, but hey, he got to play it completely. Far from a demo, and is outright theft with intent to pay sometime down the road (albeit at a lower price [I'd assume like 50% less in this case]). It's a dick move, and you know it.

Blokeh: I didn't stop short on the story. My winter coat comparison took it the full way. You're stealing something with the idea to then pay less, far less, or not at all for it at a later time. It's bullshit.

I can see why people would be like, "lol it's not a big deal, s'not hurting anyone", when it is hurting the retailers (which gets passed down to their employees). I'll agree to disagree, but I highly doubt there's any way you could convince me otherwise.

1 pirated copy does NOT equal 1 lost sale. If they pirated it with no intent to buy it in the first place, THERE IS NO LOST SALE BECUASE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BOUGHT IT ANYWAY EVEN IF THERE WAS NO PIRATED COPY.

The argument that each pirated copy = 1 lost sale is total bullshit that gets paraded around all the time and it is complete hogswash.

Now can we stop arguing? Really. There is no need to get all in a hissy fit about perceived fucking over the games industry. Besides, I am flat broke. does that mean I don't deserve to play games at all? Remember, even though I am buying the game Bastion despite pirating it and completeing it once, you have lumped me in with those "faggot pirates" too, you know, HGW.

I WILL BUY THE GAME, AND THE DEVELOPERS WILL GET THEIR CUT
I WILL BUY THE SOUNDTRACK, AND THE DEVELOPERS WILL GET THEIR CUT.
Just because it's on sale or not doesn't matter, but I loved this game so much I don't just want the game, I want the soundtrack too. I deliberately DELETED IT from my system and refuse to download the soundtrack because I want to give them my money.

And yet because I have completed that makes me scum? Because I have no fucking money because I lost my job and because the job market is shit right now, AND I have to pay off my massive overdraft because I got into severe money problems as a result, AND I have a looming student debt that still threatens to consume me, I have no right to play and enjoy games even if I plan on paying for them too?

Fuck you, buddy. Fuck you.

Just for that, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
I pirated without buying games from developers I don't like. Activision, and EA being two of them. I don't like how they run things. I don't like their bullshit copy protection that hurts legitimate buyers. If a game has overly restrictive copyprotection on it that inconveniences legitimate buyers, and I want to play it, I WILL pirate it and refuse to buy it.

If a game however does not have copy protection and it's good, then I WILL save my money that I have so little of, JUST so I can buy it. I am planning on buying Portal 2 despite completing it. I am planning on buying Bastion AND the soundtrack, despite completing it. I MAY even pirate Deus Ex and complete it, and then buy it too, possibly with the soundtrack too. I actually completed Mass Effect 1 and will at some point buy that too just to have it, but on the strength of it, I DIDN'T download ME2. I BOUGHT IT OUTRIGHT. and I will do the same for ME3.

And there is not a goddamn thing you can do about it. I am still supporting developers. I am still paying for games I would buy anyway regardless of whether I pirated or not.

Fuck your shit, buddy.

Can I just ask a simple question?

Had Al borrowed the game off a friend, completed it, enjoyed it, then waited for a sale to buy it, would he still be a scummer? Or if he'd rented it, rather than borrowed it? Would he still be making a dick move?

Just a yes or no will do.

You'll see where I'm going with this soon enough.

lolz at the idea that pirating doesn't affect developers just stores that was floated earlier.

people pirating games means that people don't buy them means that they don't sell well meaning that the stores won't buy more of that game from publishers and are less likely to invest in a publisher's future products.

it's a simple cycle.

I already said I the answer to that question is no. I'm fine with that. I explained how they're not the same due to the fact there's a transfer of ownership in those cases.

@KitDreamer

Yeah, you don't deserve to play games just 'cause you can't afford them. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Do you deserve to just walk onto a car lot, and take whatever car you want just cause you can't afford them?

How about just stealing Apple products because they release a new version every year, and you don't agree with that business practice, but lol you still want to use their product, so you'll steal it instead. The proper way to tell a company to fuck off for poor business choices is to not give them your money. That doesn't mean you then get to steal the shit. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You're not entitled to shit you don't own. And yeah, I'm thrilled you love the game and are going to do the right thing, but it's a dick thing to think you're entitled to it beforehand.

Piracy is also illegal. Just to point that out.

that should not be an indicator of if something is wrong or if it is right

Actually it does. You shouldn't be pirating games in the first place and with that being said this argument shouldn't be happening. If you want to play a game you buy it or rent it. If you like it from renting it then buy it. If you bought it and don't like it return it and get your money back or get another game. If you rented it and don't like return it.

JZ, his point was that there are stupid laws, that are exactly that: Stupid. Not all laws are an indicator of what is wrong and right.

In this case the, it is theft, regardless of how people want to justify it.

My main beef about pirating a game like Bastion is this: Bastion is made by a small indie developer. They need every sale they can get in order to recoup their investment so that they can make more unusual games like Bastion and give people more options aside from Carl on Duty: Clone Warfare 50 or Carnival Games: The Shovelware Strikes Back. Pirating it is bad enough, but pirating it and then waiting 'til it's half-priced or lower? That's a dick move.

Its already been established that the developers get a set fee for their game - after release, its the store owners that set their own prices and also them who take any "sufferance" during sales, and even then, I know full well that a £40.00 game isn't bought in at £40.00, and even selling it half price, they still make a profit... but I'm getting off topic here...

Anyway, Smokey, what if he'd borrowed it from a friend/rented from a store first, THEN bought it in a sale, as he's not of working age and has an extremely limited income?

Would the fact he's spending what little finances he does get on a game - albeit in a sale - still make him a grade-A minnie-moo-foo-foo?

yeah, but Bastion's a downloadable release, do we know that XBLA/Steam work in the same manner as brick and mortar shops?